Improving the 308 Win performance

[VLD Pilot]

In .308 caliber we make the 175 gr BD2 th a .60 G1BC, and a 195 gr BD2 bullet with a G1BC of 0.67.

Yes I understand that but a 150 ??? Just a follow-up to the Bravo 4 response to a 150 with .6 BC

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

H4895 has never given the velocity I was looking for across a multitude of projectiles.

I only use H-4895 in .204 & .223 and excellent accuracy.
It's a fast burn powder, but never used in a .308
I guess faster powder does not necessarily mean more velocity.

 

[Bravo 4]

Yes I understand that but a 150 ??? Just a follow-up to the Bravo 4 response to a 150 with .6 BC

Sorry VLD, I meant a 175. I'd go back and correct it but you already called me out on it.
My point is that no matter the cartridge, it is the same bullet going the same speed. He was wanting ways to increase performance of a .308. People do these things with all cartridges; increase barrel length, run a longer throat, run the right powders (usually at highest tolerable pressures) with some of the new highest BC bullets (like their BD2), etc. You do this with a .308 and you can get performance of larger cartridges, but only if you aren't doing the same with the larger. And now you have a capable LR hunting setup in a .308, makes it a whole different animal. Get the right bullet at the right speed and place it where it needs to go, that's how you get lethality.

 

[C-130 Dude]

This thread would be dedicated to ways to improve the performance of the 308 Win or the 7.62x51 mm cartridge without wildcatting the case. Experienced and innovative reloaders should find this interesting and are encouraged to participate. The 308Win is so versatile, inherently accurate and commonly used, and yet its performance in terms of MV, trajectory and speed is a bit mediocre. I am sure it can out perform the 3006. To start with I offer up my favorite hunting load I have used for the past 6/7 years in the 308Win. The 150 gr BD or BD2 with 49 gr of Leverevolution going 2920 fps from a 1:10, 20"Douglas barrel in a short action rifle. The same load from a 24" Bartlein 1:9 twist barrel goes 3050 fps. This load would be a pretty decent long range Elk load to 900 yds or so.

Don't even think about 900 yds on an elk with a 308. It won't have enough energy to ensure a clean kill. At that range, target only. I've been shooting 308 and 30.06 for over 40 years. There is no way with today's tech that you can make a 308 equal to or exceed the 30.06 performance at that range. Pushing at 600 or so yds is even difficult to make a clean ethical shot. There is simply not enough case capacity. IF tech improvements catch up, we'll see. Until then.....

 

[C-130 Dude]

True, but as in automobiles we can get a lot more out if any given displacement than we used to. A good example is my brother. He has modified his 300ZX to the max getting over 580 HP at the rear wheels from a 190 cu in engine dynomometer proven. Large rifle primers. Single base powder low BC jacketed lead core bullets were innovations in WWI. Relative progress in small arms ammunition has been slow since relative to that seen in artillery. Today a 155 mm US M777 can shoot a gps guided projectile 24 miles and hit within10 ft of the intended target (0.27MOA accuracy!). So figuring out the right components to improve the performance of the 308Win seems like child's play.

Remember the old saying, "There is no substitute for cubic inchs". -Mr "Grumpy" Jenkins.

 

[nralifer]

Yes I understand that but a 150 ??? Just a follow-up to the Bravo 4 response to a 150 with .6 BC

Ok. Sorry. In the 30 cal we don't primarily because of the larger cross sectional area. In smaller calibers, like the .277 we have a150 gr bullet with a G1 of 0.710. As a general rule for the same weight bullet, because of the smaller cross sectional area you can fashion a longer thinner bullet whose BC will be higher, but the larger caliber ultimately will produce heavier bullets with much higher BCs. A good example is a 6mm and a .510 caliber. The highest G1 we can get out of a 6mm is 0.61which weighs 105 gr but needs a 1:7 or preferably a 1:6 twist to stabilize it. From the 50 cal we have made an 875 gr with a G1BC of 1.32 needing a 1:12 twist to stabilize. Recoil is ferocious even with a large muzzle brake and a 50 lb rifle. Another limitation is that when a bullet is over 6 calibers long they start to exhibit erratic long range behavior.

 

[VLD Pilot]

Don't get me wrong, I love my .308s. They fill a niche for me like most guys. They DO have their limitations tho.

 

[P7M13]

I'm confused by this thread, or more specifically, its title.
Why not change the title to "Improving 308 Win performance with Badlands Bullets" ? That alone would have piqued my interest.
I find the discussions and banter regarding cartridges amusing.
I've used Lehigh, Cutting Edge, Barnes, and Hammers in various calibers with pleasing improvement in performance and very satisfactory results. Much to my dismay, I have not been able to get E-Tips to shoot well. C'est la vie.
What does interest me in this thread is looking at the Badlands for my 300 Savage. I'll see if the BD2 may fit for that.
As far as powder selection, I'm a big fan of LeverEvolution across many cartridges in the 260-357 calibers. I think Hodgdon has undersold that powder. It has an energy density that many other suitable powders do not, gives consistent performance (contributing to accuracy), and better velocities without pressure. I haven't spent the time documenting whether or not it harms the chamber throat.

 

[Rflshootr]

Here are some old old ....
winchester"silver tips"....I paid 12.90$ for 100 of these beauties.....

Yep. I used to have some of them in 30 cal.

 

[Rflshootr]

Remember the old saying, "There is no substitute for cubic inchs". -Mr "Grumpy" Jenkins.

I always thought it was "there's no replacement for cubic displacement".
but I'm old and don't remember well anymore.

 

[VLD Pilot]

I always thought it was "there's no replacement for cubic displacement".
but I'm old and don't remember well anymore.

I think that saying came before superchargers and NOS

 

[Wachsmann]

In you pic with the white background looks like you powder charges are 2 with RL26 and one with the LEVERevolution and this is all 308. Is this correct? Reason being I been curious about just trying RL26 in a 308. All conventional wisdom said its to slow of a burn rate to even think about but maybe that not the case.

 

[Rflshootr]

I think that saying came before superchargers and NOS

Are you saying I'm older then NOS?

 

[VLD Pilot]

Are you saying I'm older then NOS?

Are you older than the saying "No substitute for displacement ! I'm guessing NO