Improving the 308 Win performance

[nralifer]

I would also like to see pictures of recovered bullets from game at around 1700 FPS impact velocity. Very interesting how new powders, bullets, brass etc can drastically change the performance of many cartridges.

We would to but the fact is we have none just pics of the animal. The pic below shows three consecutive 10% gel impacts averaging 1701 fps the slowest was 1679 fps

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

Anything you do in a 308 add 125-150fps in the 06. If you really push the edge of it you can see 200fps differences in heavy bullets. As long as you compare things with the same standard

Apples to Apples need apply
Apples to Oranges?

 

[nralifer]

I believe, Yes it PROBABLY would with perfect shot placement kill an elk slowly and miserably at this yardage or even further.

Steven I have had a 168 ABLR over 2970 out of my 20" 308 5R with CFE223.

They just don't shoot worth a flip.

I did start out using CFE223 and it did not burn cleanly. Leverevolution burn rate was a bit slower and burned more cleanly and grouped better.

 

[nralifer]

I believe, Yes it PROBABLY would with perfect shot placement kill an elk slowly and miserably at this yardage or even further.

By definition, perfectly places shots are through some vital organ such as the heart, pulmonary artery or brain all of which are quick kills.

 

[Mark37082]

Those BD2's look lethal to me. I may have to give them a try. There are so many powders that work well in the 308 win case. Varget has been working well with the 168 Berger CH from an accuracy perspective. It's always fun to try another combination in a rifle that is so pleasant to shoot.

 

[nralifer]

Those BD2's look lethal to me. I may have to give them a try. There are so many powders that work well in the 308 win case. Varget has been working well with the 168 Berger CH from an accuracy perspective. It's always fun to try another combination in a rifle that is so pleasant to shoot.

It is super versatile. I've had a lot of fun shooting subsonic with it at 500-700 yds

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

Those BD2's look lethal to me. I may have to give them a try. There are so many powders that work well in the 308 win case. Varget has been working well with the 168 Berger CH from an accuracy perspective. It's always fun to try another combination in a rifle that is so pleasant to shoot.

Try H-4895. Millions upon Millions of Military 7.62 (308s) were loaded with it. It was the main Powder for the Military in rifle cartridges.
Mr. Hodgdon started "Hodgdon Powder" when he purchased a Rail Road Car full of Military 4895 Powder.

 

[Calvin45]

I mean no it's not.... it's totally different..... total garbage.... don't buy it..... cough cough

That's better

 

[Mike D Texas]

Try H-4895. Millions upon Millions of Military 7.62 (308s) were loaded with it. It was the main Powder for the Military in rifle cartridges.
Mr. Hodgdon started "Hodgdon Powder" when he purchased a Rail Road Car full of Military 4895 Powder.

H4895 has never given the velocity I was looking for across a multitude of projectiles.

 

[NativeIdahoan]

Savage 10fp 308 was my go to rifle this year. Found a good load with 180 berger EH and aa4064. Velocity @2725fps.
Wife took an antelope at 260yds, I took a bull at 400yds and she also got a cow at 425yds. All dead within 20yds.

 

[Mark37082]

I did get a good load with Hornady A-Max with H4895. For some reason it just would not perform as good as Varget and 4064 with the Bergers or 160AB's. I'm down to less than 1/2 # of H4985 so I'll probably use up the Varget (4#'s) in most of my load development.

 

[Bravo 4]

This thread would be dedicated to ways to improve the performance of the 308 Win or the 7.62x51 mm cartridge without wildcatting the case. Experienced and innovative reloaders should find this interesting and are encouraged to participate. The 308Win is so versatile, inherently accurate and commonly used, and yet its performance in terms of MV, trajectory and speed is a bit mediocre. I am sure it can out perform the 3006. To start with I offer up my favorite hunting load I have used for the past 6/7 years in the 308Win. The 150 gr BD or BD2 with 49 gr of Leverevolution going 2920 fps from a 1:10, 20"Douglas barrel in a short action rifle. The same load from a 24" Bartlein 1:9 twist barrel goes 3050 fps. This load would be a pretty decent long range Elk load to 900 yds or so

Just something to think about:
No matter what the cartridge is, a 150gr .30 caliber bullet with a g1 BC of .6 going 2900-3000+ fps still shows decent numbers out to some very long ranges. That is whether it's a specially built .308 to ring everything you can from the cartridge or a standard hunting rifle in .300 WinMag with factory ammo. Looking at your current load(s); if you extend the barrel of your .308 from 24" to 30" and got the same 32.5 fps gain per inch of your other 2 rifles (1 with 20" barrel @ 2920fps to 1 with 24" @ 3050 fps) then you would end up at .300 WinMag velocities with that 150gr bullet. Would anyone doubt a .300 WinMag with the same numbers is a capable 900 yard elk rifle? Yes and no, the numbers don't lie but there are always gonna folks that say you shouldn't shoot big game at that range no matter what you are shooting. At the altitude I'm used to hunting elk it would be adequate. Not exactly my choice, but with adequate numbers/potential. Some on this site set one of the parameters for the max effective range on game for a rifle/load as the distance the bullet reaches its minimum velocity for reliable expansion/performance.

 

[Wolf76]

This thread would be dedicated to ways to improve the performance of the 308 Win or the 7.62x51 mm cartridge without wildcatting the case. Experienced and innovative reloaders should find this interesting and are encouraged to participate. The 308Win is so versatile, inherently accurate and commonly used, and yet its performance in terms of MV, trajectory and speed is a bit mediocre. I am sure it can out perform the 3006. To start with I offer up my favorite hunting load I have used for the past 6/7 years in the 308Win. The 150 gr BD or BD2 with 49 gr of Leverevolution going 2920 fps from a 1:10, 20"Douglas barrel in a short action rifle. The same load from a 24" Bartlein 1:9 twist barrel goes 3050 fps. This load would be a pretty decent long range Elk load to 900 yds or so.

Just a quick point. The '06 and 308 are rather similar cartridges. The main difference is case capacity. The '06 has approximately 150 fps advantage when variables are equal.
For full disclosure, I love the 308 and don't much care for the '06. The 308 is an honest 450 yard elk gun. If you need more distance, grab a 30 cal magnum. A 300wm w/215 berger will do what you want.
The more animals that I shoot or see get shot, the more I realize that ballistics and terminal ballistics are friends, but not twins.

To answer your first question regarding how to innovate or get the most out of a 308..... you do that by getting a 300WM/rum/nosler.

 

[Bill Peet]

I have been using for years the 150 BD and BD2 bullets with MVs of 2920 from a 22" barrel and 3050 from a 24" barrel using Leverevolution which outperforms most 3006 loads. Have killed African Plains Game and a large Alaskan Coastal Black Bear all with single shot DRT kills. The attachment is a JBM trajectory calculation of our 175 gr BD2 bullet propelled from a 24" barrel which I think is entirely achievable for the 308 Win at 4500 ft elevation, which is not an unusual elevation to hunt Elk. The higher you go the better. At 900 yds that bullet still has 1300 ft# of energy snd is traveling at 1836 fps which is at least 100 fps more than is required to get it to expand. What makes this possible, and it is the point of the thread, is using a bullet with a high enough BC that will expand reliably at 1700 fps impact. That has already been done by a friend of mine using our 195 gr bullet with a higher BC from a 300WM at 1225 yds.

If you put that bullet in a 06 , it will out preform your 308. You can put more powder in the 06 case = more velocity longer range