Improving the 308 Win performance

[Philward]

True, but as in automobiles we can get a lot more out if any given displacement than we used to. A good example is my brother. He has modified his 300ZX to the max getting over 580 HP at the rear wheels from a 190 cu in engine dynomometer proven. Large rifle primers. Single base powder low BC jacketed lead core bullets were innovations in WWI. Relative progress in small arms ammunition has been slow since relative to that seen in artillery. Today a 155 mm US M777 can shoot a gps guided projectile 24 miles and hit within10 ft of the intended target (0.27MOA accuracy!). So figuring out the right components to improve the performance of the 308Win seems like child's play.

Is that the next step in hunting bullet development, GPS/laser guided projectiles?

 

[RidgeTop]

Why squeeze a .308? Get a .340Wby, right for the shot.

 

[Snowboy]

I believe, Yes it PROBABLY would with perfect shot placement kill an elk slowly and miserably at this yardage or even further.

I agree. Let's use the .308 win. at the under 400 yd range. It kills ok at this distance. Personally I am shooting my 300 magnum on any hunt where I am expecting to shoot over 300 yards just because you may not always get the ideal set up.

 

[Snowboy]

By definition, perfectly places shots are through some vital organ such as the heart, pulmonary artery or brain all of which are quick kills.

Remember alot can happen in the time it takes a bullet to get that far. Animals are not steel plates.

 

[Snowboy]

Maybe, maybe not. I want to remind you that point of the thread is TO SHARE WAYS THAT PERFORMANCE OF THE .308CAN BE IMPROVED WITHOUT WILDCATTING THE CARTRIDGE. The principles to effect these improvements can then be applied to other cartridges including the 30'06. The thread is not a discussion of what's "better" than something else, but rather a demonstration by knowledgeable reloaders on how guys can improve the guns they already have. Bullets, primers, powders, throat designs, action length, etc. all play a role.

Please don't use the .308 win. for elk at 900 yds.

 

[Txcowboy50]

I would still like to know the .308 win. load that pushes a 175 gr bullet with 2900mv; no where in any of my manuals.

 

[Mark37082]

Nralifer - don't despair. I realize you are promoting your bullets and I appreciate your attempt to show us their attributes. Every time a bullet performance is brought up on this forum it turns into $@!+ show. As you said everyone has their opinions. People will pick fly $@!+ out of pepper in everything you bring up.

 

[Hard rock]

Please don't use the .308 win. for elk at 900 yds.

Nralifer - don't despair. I realize you are promoting your bullets and I appreciate your attempt to show us their attributes. Every time a bullet performance is brought up on this forum it turns into $@!+ show. As you said everyone has their opinions. People will pick fly $@!+ out of pepper in everything you bring up.

I understand the point being made like most on this forum . The choice of a bullet can enhance the performance of most cartridges, such as the bullet he chose too use as an example in the 308 win . I think if it was left at that , there might not be as much skepticism. The 308 win is still a 308 win . and it will not out perform the 30-06 and the 30-06 will not outperform the 300 mags, when handloading too the potential of said cartridges. I think I get the point , but it would not be my choice of a 900 yd elk cartridge . It does make me wonder how many Elk have been killed or wounded at that range or what percentage of hunters can actually make a 900 yd shot on anything.

 

[Chesterrose79]

I want to see the 175 class bullets going 2900 out of a 308. Not saying it can't be done but it would be dam sure impressive if they did!

Just did a pressure test on my 308 with 185 gr Juggernauts. Fount slight pressure at 2908fps. Next node down was 2850.
N140
32" custom barrel

 

[LRNut]

Is that the next step in hunting bullet development, GPS/laser guided projectiles?

DARPA spent a lot of money on the EXACTO project; at the end of the day, they did demonstrate the ability to guide a 50 cal bullet to its target, but concluded the cost was too great to justify further development. One of my college classmates worked on the project.

 

[choprzrul]

Maybe, maybe not. I want to remind you that point of the thread is TO SHARE WAYS THAT PERFORMANCE OF THE .308CAN BE IMPROVED WITHOUT WILDCATTING THE CARTRIDGE. The principles to effect these improvements can then be applied to other cartridges including the 30'06. The thread is not a discussion of what's "better" than something else, but rather a demonstration by knowledgeable reloaders on how guys can improve the guns they already have. Bullets, primers, powders, throat designs, action length, etc. all play a role.

From the 1st post in this thread, NRALifer said "...I am sure it can out perform the 3006..."

This thread would be dedicated to ways to improve the performance of the 308 Win or the 7.62x51 mm cartridge without wildcatting the case. Experienced and innovative reloaders should find this interesting and are encouraged to participate. The 308Win is so versatile, inherently accurate and commonly used, and yet its performance in terms of MV, trajectory and speed is a bit mediocre. I am sure it can out perform the 3006. To start with I offer up my favorite hunting load I have used for the past 6/7 years in the 308Win. The 150 gr BD or BD2 with 49 gr of Leverevolution going 2920 fps from a 1:10, 20"Douglas barrel in a short action rifle. The same load from a 24" Bartlein 1:9 twist barrel goes 3050 fps. This load would be a pretty decent long range Elk load to 900 yds or so.

Seems to me that improving speed improves performance. Looking at results for the 308 shooting a 151gr Absolute hammer, it looks like 3120fps is about tops. Same bullet in a 30-06 tops out at 3340fps.

.

 

[338+6.5]

This debate reminds me of the claims made about the .303 in Africa. Promoters say it killed more game than any other round. But the second part of that statement is more appropriate; the .303 wounded many times more than it killed. As a hunter and conservation officer, I've been sickened by the sight of wounded game running into the swamp or mountains, to die a slow painful death before feeding the coyotes. The .308, and for that matter the .30-06 are terrific, historic rounds. But if you plan to shoot at an elk at 500+ yards, shake the moths out of your wallet and buy a different gun! I had good luck with a .300WM but even better with a .338. Everything I shot at, 600+ yds, fell down and died. I hunted jack rabbits at 300 yards, head shots. I lent a .338 to a friend who had a history of watching big Moose disappear into the bush with a 30 cal bullet in the ribs. He shot his next 2 Moose with my .338, 500-600 yards, and considering the bullet punched a hole in both sides of the hide, there was what I'd call hunting success. Guys, stretch the small calibers at the range. But on hunting grounds have fun with a more appropriate round.

 

[tomsd]

This thread would be dedicated to ways to improve the performance of the 308 Win or the 7.62x51 mm cartridge without wildcatting the case. Experienced and innovative reloaders should find this interesting and are encouraged to participate. The 308Win is so versatile, inherently accurate and commonly used, and yet its performance in terms of MV, trajectory and speed is a bit mediocre. I am sure it can out perform the 3006. To start with I offer up my favorite hunting load I have used for the past 6/7 years in the 308Win. The 150 gr BD or BD2 with 49 gr of Leverevolution going 2920 fps from a 1:10, 20"Douglas barrel in a short action rifle. The same load from a 24" Bartlein 1:9 twist barrel goes 3050 fps. This load would be a pretty decent long range Elk load to 900 yds or so.

Am guessing the 30.06 could do about that with a 165 grain bullet ?

 

[VLD Pilot]

Just did a pressure test on my 308 with 185 gr Juggernauts. Fount slight pressure at 2908fps. Next node down was 2850.
N140
32" custom barrel

This can be done with yard stick barrels. It cannot with 24" barrels.