I will not be getting 'the vaccine'...

[Another Casual]

Jim: I'm an Environmental Scientist. Have you read the Danish Mask Study? I have read the original study in its entirety. It is hard to find now, unless you subscribe to scientific journals. Here's an article from the Federalist about the Danish Study. But if you read the actual study of over 6,000 participants using real surgical new daily clean masks and the control group of "no masks"--you will be shocked at the outcome of the only study that tests real people with really good surgical (3-ply) masks and a control group of real people of no masks. At the end of the study they test them all for Covid19. Statistically speaking, the difference between the two groups is insignificant. This is real science with real people in real conditions with real high-quality masks and real covid testing.

Major Study Finds Masks Don't Reduce COVID-19 Infection Rates

Dr. Christine Laine, editor-in-chief of the Annals of Internal Medicine, told The New York Times the research shows masks 'are not a magic bullet.'

thefederalist.com

A study showing if people who wear masks get it isn't as helpful as knowing if they were able to spread it to others. This would be much harder to study in a large scale experiment. Your surgeon wears a mask not because they might get something from you during surgery, but to prevent infecting you while you're sitting with your guts out. And again, if I find out later me wearing a mask didn't prevent anyone from getting it from me, it's not the end of the world. It's something easy and painless we can all do now that may help someone else.

Another Casual:
I have been reading most of your comments on this subject. I have read most of ButterBean's comments as well as most other people's comments. Your choice, for now, is your choice. However, you must be aware of the FACT that you do not have all the facts for either side of this argument. Social media and national and local news media are not presenting all sides of this situation. Try to find anything negative about the reactions to the vaccine. You likely will not and cannot find anyone discussing negative reactions to the vaccine. And there HAS to be negative reactions. You can't give over 20 million-plus vaccinations without having bad reactions, but you will not hear about those bad reactions. The simple truth is that the only truth out there has been hidden from almost all of you. You are all being lied to.

Sure, we don't know everything. We hardly ever do, but we have enough to make some informed decisions (or assumptions if you prefer). Everyone would prefer we have all the info before making decisions, but in most cases we can't know it all beforehand.

I'd love to know if the Barnes LRX will shoot well in my rifle without having to pay $35 to find out! I can read reviews and forum posts from others, but I won't know for sure until I've loaded it up and tried it.

The talk about the media suppressing everything feels like Boogeyman of a scapegoat for conspiracy peddling. A lack of negative responses doesn't mean they're being suppressed. A quick Google search yeilds more results than you'd expect if they were actually being suppressed. There are reports of side effects, both within the studies and outside of it. Some reports of anaphylaxis (right on the CDCs website!), maybe 2-3 per million. So I'm not seeing where this information is being hidden away.

We have a thread here on LRH with members posting their unfiltered experiences, positive and negative. It's a small sample size, but it isn't subject to any editor or other filters you may worry about elsewhere. Most side effects seem
minimal and much better than contracting the virus. There isn't going to be a headline everytime someone gets a rash at the injection site. Early on there were reports a nurse died after getting it, later proved to be false, but it was reported on.

What is most surprising to me is how political this has become. There's a pandemic that is bringing countries to their knees and through application of science we are able to develop and run clinical trials on vaccines within a year and a large portion of the population doesn't want it or doesn't think the pandemic is "that bad".

The numbers probably aren't perfect, nothing ever is. But theres ample evidence that this is pretty bad and it's worse because we aren't wholeheartedly fighting it. If there are unknown side effects, I'll have to deal with them later. Even with established treatments there will be unknowns or complications, but I wouldn't let that stop me from seeking treatment.

I'm younger than most here and likely would not die from the virus, but I'll happy get the vaccine first chance I get. As I said earlier, I'm continually shown by the customers and other people I see out in public that they don't care about giving the virus to me. If your eligible now and choose to wait too long you're going to be competing against very motivated people like myself to get a dose.

 

[Treeslug]

A study showing if people who wear masks get it isn't as helpful as knowing if they were able to spread it to others. This would be much harder to study in a large scale experiment. Your surgeon wears a mask not because they might get something from you during surgery, but to prevent infecting you while you're sitting with your guts out. And again, if I find out later me wearing a mask didn't prevent anyone from getting it from me, it's not the end of the world. It's something easy and painless we can all do now that may help someone else.



Sure, we don't know everything. We hardly ever do, but we have enough to make some informed decisions (or assumptions if you prefer). Everyone would prefer we have all the info before making decisions, but in most cases we can't know it all beforehand.

I'd love to know if the Barnes LRX will shoot well in my rifle without having to pay $35 to find out! I can read reviews and forum posts from others, but I won't know for sure until I've loaded it up and tried it.

The talk about the media suppressing everything feels like Boogeyman of a scapegoat for conspiracy peddling. A lack of negative responses doesn't mean they're being suppressed. A quick Google search yeilds more results than you'd expect if they were actually being suppressed. There are reports of side effects, both within the studies and outside of it. Some reports of anaphylaxis (right on the CDCs website!), maybe 2-3 per million. So I'm not seeing where this information is being hidden away.

We have a thread here on LRH with members posting their unfiltered experiences, positive and negative. It's a small sample size, but it isn't subject to any editor or other filters you may worry about elsewhere. Most side effects seem
minimal and much better than contracting the virus. There isn't going to be a headline everytime someone gets a rash at the injection site. Early on there were reports a nurse died after getting it, later proved to be false, but it was reported on.

What is most surprising to me is how political this has become. There's a pandemic that is bringing countries to their knees and through application of science we are able to develop and run clinical trials on vaccines within a year and a large portion of the population doesn't want it or doesn't think the pandemic is "that bad".

The numbers probably aren't perfect, nothing ever is. But theres ample evidence that this is pretty bad and it's worse because we aren't wholeheartedly fighting it. If there are unknown side effects, I'll have to deal with them later. Even with established treatments there will be unknowns or complications, but I wouldn't let that stop me from seeking treatment.

I'm younger than most here and likely would not die from the virus, but I'll happy get the vaccine first chance I get. As I said earlier, I'm continually shown by the customers and other people I see out in public that they don't care about giving the virus to me. If your eligible now and choose to wait too long you're going to be competing against very motivated people like myself to get a dose.

I am 68 years old and I have more problems than a math book! My wife and I live in a semirural area and have been trying mightily to get our vaccinations. It is obvious from your prose that you are on the more intelligent end of the spectrum. I do not disagree with your point of view, however, I am older than you, and I have come to realize that facts are few and far between on this subject and every other subject that governments and government bureaucracies are sharing with you and me.

 

[Treeslug]

A study showing if people who wear masks get it isn't as helpful as knowing if they were able to spread it to others. This would be much harder to study in a large scale experiment. Your surgeon wears a mask not because they might get something from you during surgery, but to prevent infecting you while you're sitting with your guts out. And again, if I find out later me wearing a mask didn't prevent anyone from getting it from me, it's not the end of the world. It's something easy and painless we can all do now that may help someone else.



Sure, we don't know everything. We hardly ever do, but we have enough to make some informed decisions (or assumptions if you prefer). Everyone would prefer we have all the info before making decisions, but in most cases we can't know it all beforehand.

I'd love to know if the Barnes LRX will shoot well in my rifle without having to pay $35 to find out! I can read reviews and forum posts from others, but I won't know for sure until I've loaded it up and tried it.

The talk about the media suppressing everything feels like Boogeyman of a scapegoat for conspiracy peddling. A lack of negative responses doesn't mean they're being suppressed. A quick Google search yeilds more results than you'd expect if they were actually being suppressed. There are reports of side effects, both within the studies and outside of it. Some reports of anaphylaxis (right on the CDCs website!), maybe 2-3 per million. So I'm not seeing where this information is being hidden away.

We have a thread here on LRH with members posting their unfiltered experiences, positive and negative. It's a small sample size, but it isn't subject to any editor or other filters you may worry about elsewhere. Most side effects seem
minimal and much better than contracting the virus. There isn't going to be a headline everytime someone gets a rash at the injection site. Early on there were reports a nurse died after getting it, later proved to be false, but it was reported on.

What is most surprising to me is how political this has become. There's a pandemic that is bringing countries to their knees and through application of science we are able to develop and run clinical trials on vaccines within a year and a large portion of the population doesn't want it or doesn't think the pandemic is "that bad".

The numbers probably aren't perfect, nothing ever is. But theres ample evidence that this is pretty bad and it's worse because we aren't wholeheartedly fighting it. If there are unknown side effects, I'll have to deal with them later. Even with established treatments there will be unknowns or complications, but I wouldn't let that stop me from seeking treatment.

I'm younger than most here and likely would not die from the virus, but I'll happy get the vaccine first chance I get. As I said earlier, I'm continually shown by the customers and other people I see out in public that they don't care about giving the virus to me. If your eligible now and choose to wait too long you're going to be competing against very motivated people like myself to get a dose.

I must apologize. I was called away from my previous rant. Though you may be able to Google certain information, as I stated earlier, you seem much too intelligent to believe that the whole truth of this pandemic is being portrayed in a truthful manner by social media or any other media. I am in no way trying to influence anyone whether or not to be vaccinated. I am simply, but strongly, stating that if people do not wake up to the truth that they are being denied the truth, and, they are being lied to at the same time, this country and all of our fought and died for rights are going to be gone. And like a penny apiece primers, your gun rights are going to be naught. See how I segued into talking about guns and primers.

 

[willfrye027]

Pretty sure you're speaking too broadly, and exceeding the facts as I understand them. When I was in elementary school, it was still common to see kids with polio on the playground. How many kids do we see with polio in the USA today? Polio and smallpox vaccination was required in those days or you simply didn't attend school. I received those vaccinations as a kid. The science behind those type of vaccines is very well understood. They involve dead or weakened variants of the actual virus, and prompt our immune system to develop its own immunilogical response.

Some viruses can currently be cured with widespread innoculation with a vaccine. The problem with this mRNA jungle juice injection is it isn't anything at all similar to one of the vaccines that largely eliminated polio and smallpox. It has no potential to prevent infection, and no potential to prevent transmission. This coming directly from the companies that manufactured the juice. This is an experiment on humans, because the juice wasn't tested on lab animals before it was cleared for injection in homo sapiens.

Anyhow, I believe some "vaccines", by definition, do have the potential to purge planet earth of some viruses. Just depends on the specific virus.

This china virus juice has no such potential. The methodology is completely different than a vaccine. Which is why I opted out. I figure in about 5yrs, we'll begin to get some idea of the negative consequences, should there be any.

This is simply not true. Did you read the clinical trials? It's absolutely preventing infection. We don't have data on whether or not it prevents spread (ie asymptomatic spread if you were vaccinated already). It's hard to design a study that does this but common sense dictate that it works just fine in this regard.

It's really not worth getting into semantics about what a vaccine is. the mRNA vaccine tells your own cells to create the viral material that your immune system will recognize and create antibodies against. It's an amazing feat of science and is a big part of how we got it so quickly.

Fear the vaccine if you want, but you might want to check your facts on it's efficacy.

 

[JimFromTN]

So who is the expert since you claim a doctor speaking from a professional perspective is nonsense? Do you have a PhD in immunology? Maybe in virology? What makes your opinion valid over theirs? At least some of them are medical doctors. Exactly who is the "know all" that can enlighten us all? You may not like the people in the video but they are giving their opinions on the facts. What exactly did they say that was not true? I have a feeling you would find a way to discount anyone against the vaccine.

What Covid really did was divide people and the politicians are grateful for that, division is what keeps them in office. This was not a pandemic, 99% of the people I know who got it survived as did I. The actual overall death rate from covid is extremely low. My dad and aunt did not but that does not change anything, it is still an overblown crisis that ruined millions of lives due to overreaction. There is no convincing anyone, this has divided America and there is no reconciliation. Our country has begun it's demise and it will only get worse from here.

No, I don't have a PhD in immunology or virology, but neither do they which is the point. Also, the definition of a pandemic has nothing to do with survival rates. The rates maybe low but almost a half a million people have died so far in this country. The spanish flu was 675,000. Before this is over, we will surpass that number. As for millions of lives being ruined because of overreaction, I would argue that they were ruined because of underreaction and the fact that we have Karen's running around saying their rights are being violated by being forced to wear a mask. If we had taken it seriously in the beginning and masked up and socially distanced, we would be past this like the rest of the planet.

 

[can1010]

No, I don't have a PhD in immunology or virology, but neither do they which is the point. Also, the definition of a pandemic has nothing to do with survival rates. The rates maybe low but almost a half a million people have died so far in this country. The spanish flu was 675,000. Before this is over, we will surpass that number. As for millions of lives being ruined because of overreaction, I would argue that they were ruined because of underreaction and the fact that we have Karen's running around saying their rights are being violated by being forced to wear a mask. If we had taken it seriously in the beginning and masked up and socially distanced, we would be past this like the rest of the planet.

you really think the rest of the planet is past this? you need to look around, Europe is having an explosion of covid they are saying Italy is worse off than the first round and the little you see on the news says Africa is also experiencing worse numbers. Europes lockdowns were stronger than ours but in the end it didn't help.

 

[Mrvmax]

No, I don't have a PhD in immunology or virology, but neither do they which is the point. Also, the definition of a pandemic has nothing to do with survival rates. The rates maybe low but almost a half a million people have died so far in this country. The spanish flu was 675,000. Before this is over, we will surpass that number. As for millions of lives being ruined because of overreaction, I would argue that they were ruined because of underreaction and the fact that we have Karen's running around saying their rights are being violated by being forced to wear a mask. If we had taken it seriously in the beginning and masked up and socially distanced, we would be past this like the rest of the planet.

So you have no degree and I would concur that their opinions are much more valid than yours. More than a half million die a year from heart disease, shall we stop selling anything that leads to heart disease? Why don't we shut down every fast food restaurant, we need to keep so many from dying. How about cancer, about 600000 a year die from that, why don't we eliminate everything that causes cancer. Isn't that a horrific way to die (yes it is, I watched a friend slowly died from that two years ago)? Why not compare this to other causes of deaths and our reaction to it. Did you give how many people die every year a second thought before covid? I doubt it, the death rate has nothing to do with a pandemic since there are other things that cause ore deaths than covid. Is there a certain number of deaths per year that we need to shut down anything that is a contributing factor?

Did you read that Danish study? Wearing masks is not the cure to covid. You have the definition of Karen backwards too, it is not the one not wanting to wear a mask, it is the one telling them they need to wear a mask. You believe what you want and I will believe what I want. I will not get a shot and would gladly give mine to someone else if I could. The world is not ending due to covid but many today sure have that idea implanted into their head.

 

[rammac]

No, I don't have a PhD in immunology or virology, but neither do they which is the point. Also, the definition of a pandemic has nothing to do with survival rates. The rates maybe low but almost a half a million people have died so far in this country. The spanish flu was 675,000. Before this is over, we will surpass that number. As for millions of lives being ruined because of overreaction, I would argue that they were ruined because of underreaction and the fact that we have Karen's running around saying their rights are being violated by being forced to wear a mask. If we had taken it seriously in the beginning and masked up and socially distanced, we would be past this like the rest of the planet.

In the beginning we were told that a single mask was unnecessary...
then we were told that it was imperative that we wear a mask to protect us...
then we were told that asymptomatic people were the worst threat...
then we were told that asymptomatic people aren't a threat...
then we were told that we needed to wear one as a civic duty to prevent others from getting sick...
now we're being told that we should wear two masks because of how badly the virus is still spreading...
at what point will you realize that since they keep moving the goalposts then there is a pretty good chance that they either have no clue about how to actually control this virus (like most other viruses) or they are simply lying to you?

Yes it's real, yes, it can be very devastating and in some cases deadly, but I don't feel guilty for not wearing a mask, I'm old enough to have seen some pretty bad things in life and I figure that when it's my time then it's my time, and since the places with the highest fatality rates are congested, large cities, and I live very rurally, I'm not going to worry about it.

 

[Another Casual]

So you have no degree and I would concur that their opinions are much more valid than yours. More than a half million die a year from heart disease, shall we stop selling anything that leads to heart disease? Why don't we shut down every fast food restaurant, we need to keep so many from dying. How about cancer, about 600000 a year die from that, why don't we eliminate everything that causes cancer. Isn't that a horrific way to die (yes it is, I watched a friend slowly died from that two years ago)? Why not compare this to other causes of deaths and our reaction to it. Did you give how many people die every year a second thought before covid? I doubt it, the death rate has nothing to do with a pandemic since there are other things that cause ore deaths than covid. Is there a certain number of deaths per year that we need to shut down anything that is a contributing factor?

Did you read that Danish study? Wearing masks is not the cure to covid. You have the definition of Karen backwards too, it is not the one not wanting to wear a mask, it is the one telling them they need to wear a mask. You believe what you want and I will believe what I want. I will not get a shot and would gladly give mine to someone else if I could. The world is not ending due to covid but many today sure have that idea implanted into their head.

Again, mask wearing prevents me from giving it to someone else by slowing or preventing vapor in my breath from being deposited on someone a few feet off. Your study didn't address that. Wearing the mask is simple and non-invasive. If we learn at a later point it wasn't very effective, we aren't out much as a society for having tried. If nothing else, sewing them keeps my mom busy in her free time. Everyone has to have a hobby.

With regards to the heart disease and cancer, if I get those as a result of my choices I can't give it to someone else. Cancer will not spread from me to another person. Covid, however, can. And we can also stop it from doing so.

If I don't wear a seatbelt or I Ihoose to smoke 3 packs a day, that realistically only impacts me. If I get covid and spread it through careless actions I've impacted many others. I'm a big proponent of rugged individualism and I accept that also means being accountable for how my actions impact others.

 

[JimFromTN]

Jim: I'm an Environmental Scientist. Have you read the Danish Mask Study? I have read the original study in its entirety. It is hard to find now, unless you subscribe to scientific journals. Here's an article from the Federalist about the Danish Study. But if you read the actual study of over 6,000 participants using real surgical new daily clean masks and the control group of "no masks"--you will be shocked at the outcome of the only study that tests real people with really good surgical (3-ply) masks and a control group of real people of no masks. At the end of the study they test them all for Covid19. Statistically speaking, the difference between the two groups is insignificant. This is real science with real people in real conditions with real high-quality masks and real covid testing.

Major Study Finds Masks Don't Reduce COVID-19 Infection Rates

Dr. Christine Laine, editor-in-chief of the Annals of Internal Medicine, told The New York Times the research shows masks 'are not a magic bullet.'

thefederalist.com

No offense but I am not going to the federalist to get information on a scientific study. Point me to the CDC, WHO, or a medical journal. Interestingly enough, here is a quote from the lead researcher

While the study found little evidence that masks protected the wearers from Covid-19, it should not be used as evidence to not wear a mask. "Even a small degree of protection is worth using the face masks," says Dr. Henning Bundgaard, professor of Cardiology at Rigshospitalet in Denmark and lead author of the study, "because you are protecting yourself against a potentially life-threatening disease."

Again, not only does he suggest everyone wear a mask but the study does not address using masks to keep the wearer from spreading the disease.

 

[JimFromTN]

In the beginning we were told that a single mask was unnecessary...
then we were told that it was imperative that we wear a mask to protect us...
then we were told that asymptomatic people were the worst threat...
then we were told that asymptomatic people aren't a threat...
then we were told that we needed to wear one as a civic duty to prevent others from getting sick...
now we're being told that we should wear two masks because of how badly the virus is still spreading...
at what point will you realize that since they keep moving the goalposts then there is a pretty good chance that they either have no clue about how to actually control this virus (like most other viruses) or they are simply lying to you?

Yes it's real, yes, it can be very devastating and in some cases deadly, but I don't feel guilty for not wearing a mask, I'm old enough to have seen some pretty bad things in life and I figure that when it's my time then it's my time, and since the places with the highest fatality rates are congested, large cities, and I live very rurally, I'm not going to worry about it.

Not sure you are aware of this but thats how science and medicine works. Also, who said asymptomatic people aren't a threat?

As for it being your time, hopefully you won't take someone you care about with you.

 

[JimFromTN]

you really think the rest of the planet is past this? you need to look around, Europe is having an explosion of covid they are saying Italy is worse off than the first round and the little you see on the news says Africa is also experiencing worse numbers. Europes lockdowns were stronger than ours but in the end it didn't help.

They are so far ahead of us

 

[tcmikey]

I wonder if our ability to know the truth was any better in 1918? 675k Spanish flu deaths were what %of the population? How accurate was testing? Could they have died from something else and be counted Spanish flu? Was someone profiting from the classification of those deaths or is that a recent tactic? Was there a simultaneous ammo and primer shortage in 1918? Will my gravestone have a question mark on it?

 

[can1010]

They are so far ahead of us

how do you figure that there infection rates per 1000 is higher, there death rate is higher, the vaccine they are using is ours, and they have no personal freedoms left they, need papers just to go get food, how can that be called as being so far ahead of us