How do you eliminate runout

[Patriot007]

Thanks Savage.....I am doing pretty much everything you're are saying and with the same equipment except for the Lee collet die. My fired brass has anywhere from .0005-.0010 runout to start with. I run my brass through a universal decapping die first then I throw them in a tumbler and clean them. Next, after cleaning, I anneal all the necks. Then I run them through my Redding bushing die w/o the expander and decapping pin....3 strokes( rotating the brass 1/3 rotation each stroke). Then I seat the bullets with a Forster Ultra Micrometer seating die. Still getting .0025" runout

May I suggest, just use your Redding die to bump the shoulder back .002 and get you a lee collect die to size the case neck. I not familiar with the Redding bushing die but I am with the Forster bump die.
With the Forster bushing bump die. I found that using the bushings to size the neck was a pain in the butt to get .0002
case neck run out. It required 3 different bushings to work the case neck down to .0002 run out." along drawn out process." The Lee collect die solved this problem for me. The trick for me was tuning the case neck for grip tension.
I solved that by ordering a Blank drill bit. "For 223 rem - .221 plus and 6.5CM - .262 minus. With these blank drill blanks I am able to adjust my Lee Collet Die and neck tension on the case neck. I collect the case neck, depending on if the drill blank is +, or -, I insert it into the case neck, and check how tight or loose it is in the neck by putting my thumb over the primer hole and checking the compression on the drill blank in the case neck. I also found out, that, if I collect first and then bump the shoulder back it greatly reduced case neck run out. I check all of my rifle cases on my Neco concentricity gauge for case neck run out, over all bullet run out and I index them by the Banana curve. I am very OCD.
By indexing the Banana curve of the case, that insures that each bullet case Hight spot or low spot is sitting in the same position in the rifle chamber. "Yes I have been down a many rabbit hole." This gives me a, BUG EYED one whole at 100yds in my factory barrel rifles. I can't ask for more out of them, all I can do is, to try to do my part behind the rifle.
I hope this helped in some way, but this is how I do it. I'm always looking for a better way, and one day we will fined that magic POST on here.

 

[Exarcher]

In an effort to improve my reloading process with the intended goal of improving accuracy, SD and ES I have invested in a concentricity gauge to measure runout on my brass necks and finished loads. I also just started using a Redding type S full length "bushing" sizing die to control neck tension. For some darn reason all of my brass necks are ending up with about .0015"-.0025" of runout. What am I doing wrong?

If you are loading for single round loading, adjust the neck bushing die such that it sizes only 1/4 of the neck, (this is common among winning benchrest shooters reloading). It is plenty to hold the bullet and most likely won't bend the neck... if you have "runout" before the reloading process, now thats a different problem altogether.. also, get the best brass you can to start with,, (Lapua, or Norma)

 

[Ted Sierocinski]

In an effort to improve my reloading process with the intended goal of improving accuracy, SD and ES I have invested in a concentricity gauge to measure runout on my brass necks and finished loads. I also just started using a Redding type S full length "bushing" sizing die to control neck tension. For some darn reason all of my brass necks are ending up with about .0015"-.0025" of runout. What am I doing wrong?

Try rotating the round in the seating for and recheck the run out. I also achieved minimal run-out by inside neck reaming. The least run out I ever achieved was by inside reaming using a Harding

In an effort to improve my reloading process with the intended goal of improving accuracy, SD and ES I have invested in a concentricity gauge to measure runout on my brass necks and finished loads. I also just started using a Redding type S full length "bushing" sizing die to control neck tension. For some darn reason all of my brass necks are ending up with about .0015"-.0025" of runout. What am I doing wrong?

Rotate the rounds 3x at 120 degrees in the seating die and then check the run out.

 

[tnek13]

I have chased the same problem - runout. I have tried just about everything mentioned so far in this tread. Plus polishing the inside of the necks with 0000 steel wool to try to equalize case neck resistance when seating the bullet. Bottom line I try for .000 but accept less than .002 as long as my ES and groups are good. Your current results look good but if perfection is your goal go back to JE Custom's post and measure everything.

 

[IHFarmer07]

I didn't have time to read all posts and will later but f-class John is a very good person with A LOT of experience playing with this all.


I have been down this rabbit hole and honestly 1.5-2.5 is pretty good......I'm anal about things but after awhile buying this and that and trying this and that,you can definitely go crazy chasing this. Some simple things to watch for and do is sometimes what it takes to find where the problem is. Sometimes it's the process that is being done and type of dies, I know for fact if you size too much with a bushing it's can wreck havoc. One rifle I actually size with a forester BR sizer, anneal, expand with a Kenny Porter die, trim, turn necks, size the neck back down with a bushing type-s die, then expand again with the Kenny Porter die with whatever pin gage and done. You just have to pull your hair out, research, research and ask questions, sort through what others do and try them and work slowly sizing, like pausing when the brass is in the die.

Good luck in your rabbit hole escapades lol, we've all had those experiences!!!

 

[ultraedge]

First check your fired brass shot in your chamber for runout. If it has any, then it is not going to get better with out a new chamber. In my experience, correctly sized non bushing resizing dies will load straighter ammo than bushing dies. That being said,ammo loaded in bushing dies shoots just as well or better because it is easy to control neck tension. Also using compressed powder charges or bullets that do not fit your seating stem correctly can induce runout. The bullet still has to go the complete length of the barrel when shot, so I cannot see what difference one or two thousandths runout would make.

 

[Savage 12BVSS]

Rotate the rounds 3x at 120 degrees in the seating die and then check the run out.

This helps for sure, it just takes doing it a while for it to become second nature. I followed JE Customs advice to measure every step of the way and figure out where the runout appears. Like him I found the bullet seating step to be the step hardest to control runout. One final note I will leave you with, the press can have an effect on runout in both seating and sizing steps. When I retired my rockchucker to depriming duty and started using the RCBS Summit which allows some shellholder and ram movement to keep die and brass in alignment, I noticed an improvement using the same dies. Its also important to use the Valentine adjustment method on the lee collet die, find your sweet spot. Forster Co Ax press also does a great job!

 

[brguide]

I had an issue with run-out also. But once I bought a Harrell compact press and whidden die all my run-out left. No turning of necks, ect.

 

[DCAN]

Have you tried other brands of dies? It's no doubt just me, but, I've had lousy luck with Redding dies and runout. Forester has always been good to me. Come to think of it, Lee has treated me better than Redding. Just a thought.

 

[newmexkid]

May I suggest, just use your Redding die to bump the shoulder back .002 and get you a lee collect die to size the case neck. I not familiar with the Redding bushing die but I am with the Forster bump die.
With the Forster bushing bump die. I found that using the bushings to size the neck was a pain in the butt to get .0002
case neck run out. It required 3 different bushings to work the case neck down to .0002 run out." along drawn out process." The Lee collect die solved this problem for me. The trick for me was tuning the case neck for grip tension.
I solved that by ordering a Blank drill bit. "For 223 rem - .221 plus and 6.5CM - .262 minus. With these blank drill blanks I am able to adjust my Lee Collet Die and neck tension on the case neck. I collect the case neck, depending on if the drill blank is +, or -, I insert it into the case neck, and check how tight or loose it is in the neck by putting my thumb over the primer hole and checking the compression on the drill blank in the case neck. I also found out, that, if I collect first and then bump the shoulder back it greatly reduced case neck run out. I check all of my rifle cases on my Neco concentricity gauge for case neck run out, over all bullet run out and I index them by the Banana curve. I am very OCD.
By indexing the Banana curve of the case, that insures that each bullet case Hight spot or low spot is sitting in the same position in the rifle chamber. "Yes I have been down a many rabbit hole." This gives me a, BUG EYED one whole at 100yds in my factory barrel rifles. I can't ask for more out of them, all I can do is, to try to do my part behind the rifle.
I hope this helped in some way, but this is how I do it. I'm always looking for a better way, and one day we will fined that magic POST on here.

You're getting .0002 runout?

 

[Pdyson]

Trying to make perfect ammo can drive you crazy. Some have touched on it but your press can induce runout no matter how much you spend on precision dies. If the ram, or even the shell holder isn't perfectly square and centered on the die it will induce runout. I'm using my rockchucker press I bought new in 1981. All that wear and abrasive powder residue have made the ram extremely sloppy. I believe that play makes better ammo. The coax presses have floating shell holders. slop helps the brass center itself in the die. the Lee collet dies have some built in slop and are also self centering.

 

[Stiltsville]

It is with all ammo loaded in this press or JUST with these dies ?

 

[dougduey]

Welcome to this rabbit hole I'll give you my personal experience, and you can determine if it will be helpful to you.
One of the best ways to obtain concentricity is by proper seating depth of the bullet. You want the bullet base or base/boat tail junction to be at the brass case neck/ shoulder junction. Besides giving you very little runout, this tends to be a perfect seating depth (I've done a ton of seating depth tests and 9/10 end up being this COAL).
Next is the neck tension issue. Fired brass will need to be annealed usually after 3 firings to keep the neck tension consistent. I use the Redding Type S bushing with the bushing that sets tension to either 0.002 or 0.003. I get perfect tension using the Sinclair Neck Turning Mandrels because they are exactly 0.002. If you want 0.001, then use the Expanding mandrels. I do this on all the virgin brass. Running the mandrels through the necks creates a uniform inside diameter at pushes the "thicker" area of the brass to the outside. You can choose to neck turn to clean up the outsides if you want, but I haven't found any noticeable difference.
I learned this method from Remmy700 on this site. It has dropped my ES and SD numbers.......most are single digit now. When I check run out, it's either 0 or 0.001.
I do own many Lee Collect Neck Dies and they are wonderful.

 

[Old man 257]

I don't know if this will help but Hornady make a concentricity tool to Illuminate bullet runout