How critical is scope level?

[theosmithjr]

Anyone shooting that distance, and there are very, very, very few of us doing it, KNOWS THAT EVERY SINGLE THING MUST BE PERFECT! NO IFs, ANDs, ORs About it! IT MUST BE PERFECT!Anyone whom says otherwise is a complete ******* and has NO IDEA what he's talking about! You can't hit a Dead Center BULLSEYE at 100 yards if your canted!
Theosmithjr

 

[Sirrated]

I too use a plumb bob to get a vertical reference for the cross hairs. You can look through the bore to see that the plumb line bisects the bore, then set your level bubble. Check with tall target.
Here is how I think of scope vs. POI. The rifle shoots where it shoots; we try to get the scope to cover the POI. If you rotate the scope to the right, clockwise, the cross hair is to the right of the POI. If you then move the scope to the hoped for POI, bullet goes to the LEFT of where you aimed.

Well put, this is the prefered method of scope set up, that I have adopted in recent years, it seems to work very well. I would recomend this method as its cheap and easy.

 

[Alibiiv]

I have been lurking on this site for about a year , the members on here have a ton of knowledge . I can sit and read these posts for hours on end , having said that , I live in Canada , i've been hunting and shooting for a long time ( only out to 500 yds ) and I don't have a chance to shoot through the winter as the range is closed at my club , my poi first thing is the spring isn't close to what it is by fall and I do use a level . Practice , practice , practice .

Thanks for all the knowledge

 

[smokey3]

Its not exact but it's very simple and gets you within an inch of where the full series of equations I did will get you.

Impressive Rifleman97

 

[smokey3]

They don't work. At least not as they are intended. Yes, there are multiple threads on the wheeler level kits. However the fact is, all scopes are manufactored differently with different tolerances, especially when they get the reticle installed in there. A level turret and a level reticle aren't usually synonymous. Use a plum line. Or get one of the sniperhide mildot targets for 100yards and use a carpenter level to square it before you staple it. That's the short answer

I have used a hanging string like a plum bob with great success.

 

[jdmecomber]

Most of our targets have a tracking line in IPHY, Mil and true moa. It's very quick to level the target and shoot. I always check before my hunts.

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We are offering free shipping for orders over 50$.

 

[30BR]

Anyone shooting that distance, and there are very, very, very few of us doing it, KNOWS THAT EVERY SINGLE THING MUST BE PERFECT! NO IFs, ANDs, ORs About it! IT MUST BE PERFECT!Anyone whom says otherwise is a complete ------- and has NO IDEA what he's talking about! You can't hit a Dead Center BULLSEYE at 100 yards if your canted!
Theosmithjr

Sorry to disagree, but here is the guy who does it:
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/08/californias-bob-gustin-sets-palma-records-at-camp-perry/
I know, because I used to run the gun club on Camp Pendleton, and Bob tried to teach me to shoot. He would always start his session by saying DON'T DO WHAT I DO.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The scopes vertical travel/crosshair doent have to be in line with the bore at all. A scopes relationship to the rifle has little meaning. Cant of the scope's elevation erector system relative to the earth is what matters.

 

[dfanonymous]

The scopes vertical travel/crosshair doent have to be in line with the bore at all. A scopes relationship to the rifle has little meaning. Cant of the scope's elevation erector system relative to the earth is what matters.

You know what degree angle most guns barrels are angled?

 

[edward hogan]

Scope "level"....
Not nearly as critical as orienting the scope perfectly on the cernter-bore line and crosshair aligned perfectly on both axes.

Canted base systems have been used for years to enable longrange adjustments. The cant varies depending on how much "gain" in vertical travel you require for the distance you expect to be shooting.

What you want to know for longrange is the total remaining come-ups on your reticle movement. Without a heavily canted scope base like a 40min Picatinny Rail, it's pretty hard to shoot 1000 yds or longer, unless you zero your rifle at 500-600 yds. So... you might find that your scope has 60 MOA or 58 Mils of total elevation. If zeroed at 100yds, it might take 35 moa without the canted base. With a 40min cant, you'd have a zero of 150-200yds and FULL 60 moa of come-ups available. You check a ballistics calculator and chart your trajectory and plot or write-out elevation gain for your possible distances. Then you check it at the range.

The Bushnell #74-3333 boresighter-collimator tool is especially handy to verify that your turrets move consistently the same value. It is great for mounting verification also as it has a 160 moa grid etched within. Great for diagnosing problems and inconsistencies.

A hashmark reticle is also excellent for hold-unders at close range and fast reaction holdovers at moderate to medium (600yd) ranges.

Everything depends on your scope base and rings. The Boresighter should be very close to centerline before any adjustments are considered. Your scope ought also be reticle-centered when dialed at mid-point of both elevation and windage adjustments. Often, setting the scope at mid-point might result in your being Off a couple clicks. If using a Big Money scope, so-called Great Glass, if it's off, you have a lemon. Boresighter can save your bacon, and another reason to check every scope you buy immediately upon delivery.

Lots of corrections might be necessary before you have a dependable, reliable platform for longrange... Barrel shoulder might be off-square to the receiver shoulder. Chamber might be cut off-axis. Base mounting holes might be off-center. Barrel may be bored out of center. Stock may have a poor inlet or stress the barrel.

Unless you are shooting F-Class or from some mechanical rest like a weighted tripod, a magnum is likely to present recoil problems which can only be solved by taking the punishment or employing a recoil relief system.

The BEST tool I ever bought for precision rifle shooting is the Bushnell 74-3333. Without one, or something better, you are flying in the dark w/o instruments, and every correction you make will likely only exacerbate your problems.

 

[30BR]

...
The BEST tool I ever bought for precision rifle shooting is the Bushnell 74-3333. Without one, or something better, you are flying in the dark w/o instruments, and every correction you make will likely only exacerbate your problems.

The only problem with it is that it will not raise up high enough to work with huge front scope lens housings mounted high. The scope crosshairs wind up above the pattern.

 

[wildcat westerner]

Hello Everyone,

There is a lot of technical aspects being espoused here. Might I add some practical aspects? I have my own range to 800 yards here at 6,446 feet in the Rockies. If the question is applied to a hunting rifle, think of how small the heart/lung of an elk/deer is at 700-800 yards. Add in these variables: winds, which allways comes "free" at high altitudes and is a constant factor; the limited amount of time for a shot at an animal, even though he may be lying in the brush; the lack of a stable, level baseofsupport in the field ( I am assuming not Hunting off the top of a concrete benchrest) and the excitement of the situation.
The answer for me is sighing in closely using the "tall target" of Brian Litz, and then tweaking that scope vertical crosshairs by shooting it at long distance. When you know it's perfect and your scope level is exactly correct,you would be amazed at how far a bullet can really drift at longer distances, despite what any program in a I phone or calculator that I have ever encountered. When dealing with the fact you are depriving an animal of its very existence, you owe it the most accurate shot you can take. The time spent to get the vertical crosshair exactly correct is time well spent!

 

[Capt RB]

You can see before the fall It was spot on.

Your impact is growing in this picture. Did you correct your solver to coincide with what your scope actually corrects to?

 

[SilentPew]

I really question this canting? I see Hill Country Rifles shootinq at targets over 2 miles and watching them, it doesn't seem they could possibly be conscious of or looking at their level. Yet they are hitting the target consistently.

If they are dialing up on turrets then maybe not as important since they are going off "center" with a new zero that is correct assuming it was level in the first place? I can definitely see the importance of a level when using your reticle for hold over though.