Is a scope level needed?

[MOA Chaser]

OK, after more than a dozen pages, here is a really stupid question. How does one install a level on a rifle/scope that may or may not be level to start with? Or does it matter as long as you check the level at every shot. In other words, is it relative to your rig? I bring this up because it is not unusual to look through someone else's scope and see that the crosshairs are canted left or right. When you tell them that and they look through their scope, the usually remark is that "they look level to me" and it is your stupid brain that is canted.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

OK, after more than a dozen pages, here is a really stupid question. How does one install a level on a rifle/scope that may or may not be level to start with? Or does it matter as long as you check the level at every shot. In other words, is it relative to your rig? I bring this up because it is not unusual to look through someone else's scope and see that the crosshairs are canted left or right. When you tell them that and they look through their scope, the usually remark is that "they look level to me" and it is your stupid brain that is canted.

Thats not a stupid question at all.

First you dont want to put a level on a scope thats not leveled with the rifles bore. If you do it may bring consistency to you shooting but it will also guarantee an amount horizontal drift as range increases thats is difficult to predict.

When you mount a scope you want the verticle part of the reticle to theoretically travel down through the center of the bore of the barrel.
When this condition exist and the scope level indicates the reticle is plumb, then the reticle will always travel directly parallel and perpindicular to the centerline of the barrel bore.

There are tools to achieve this during mounting and test to verify it is set up correctly.

 

[WildRose]

OK, after more than a dozen pages, here is a really stupid question. How does one install a level on a rifle/scope that may or may not be level to start with? Or does it matter as long as you check the level at every shot. In other words, is it relative to your rig? I bring this up because it is not unusual to look through someone else's scope and see that the crosshairs are canted left or right. When you tell them that and they look through their scope, the usually remark is that "they look level to me" and it is your stupid brain that is canted.

Install your scope leveled.

There are a number of ways to do so but the easiest is to use a rail mounted level mounted to your scope rail and another level on top of the scope. Match the bubbles and you are done.

You can also use one level on the rail and a down range plum line to level the scope.

One of the best investments I ever made was to purchase a Wheeler scope mounting kit which includes both a torque wrench and bits along with two magnetic levels.

 

[7magcreedmoor]

EXD makes a tool that is excellent for leveling a scope install. It eliminates any issues that may be in an imperfectly machined receiver by resting on the barrel and the scope objective bell, so you have the scope plumb above bore even if you can't find a level spot in or on the receiver for a conventional level. Used in conjunction with a plumb line on the far wall to sight the reticle against, and backed up by the "tall target test" as described by Darrell Holland, all will be well.

 

[aroshtr]

MOA Chaser:
If you install a level that mounts to your scope tube... You can get away without changing the current position of your scope. You may have to make some minor changes to your zero after the level is set.
Quick way:
1. For quick reference use a small level on your turret cap or elevation knob, and install the scope tube mounted level to match this. This will get you very close to where you will need to be, but...
2. You will eventually need to confirm by shooting on a vertical line at 100 yards, or long distance testing, that when you dial your scope (or use your hold over reticle) that you bullet impact stays on the vertical line.

I know it has been argued before, but it not necessary that your scope be aligned perfectly with the bore if you are using a scope tube mounted level. If you use a rail mounted level, it is necessary.

Don't be afraid of this process, and you do not need any special tools. Some of these simple steps, and a little testing will get your level dialed in.

 

[Unofficial Gun Addict (UGA)]

Ok.... The question has been asked about previous non-believers in levels and an update.... So here you go.

Since buying my level, I've found that in the flat terrain here in Idaho... I can easily level my scope without the aid of a level, (but) when I've been out on slopes.... And the horizon is not easily in view... What I think is level starts moving off level. This doesn't seem to make any difference at closer ranges.... 400 or so yards. I suspect that on big game, even 500 would still keep me in check, but beyond that, I am pretty sure that my bullets are likely to drift out of my comfort zone for ethical shooting. Haven't been able to put that to the test yet, but I can see I always cant a little left under sloped conditions.

Also, when I am using my night vision scope, I also see this tendancy. I do a lot of hunting where the horizon is visible so I suspect that my subconscious has always helped to get me nice and vertical using that as a guide. Without that, it is definitely more challenging to stay true level. I've since put a level on each of my, favorite scopes.

As to how I find the best way to level... I place a level on my picatinny rail and then hang a plumb bob. I get the bubble level....and then adjust my scope til the vertical crosshairs align with the bob string. When both the bubble and the vertical crosshairs are perfect... I tighten up the mounts and double check as I do this. Then I mount the scope level to match the picatinny level, tighten and double check.

To be candid, my night vision yote shots are usually 100-300 yards and I don't even bother checking the scope level for these shots, however, the same scope (once I remove my night vision attachment) is also used on my 300 win mag and 308, so I can see the scope level being very useful for long range shooting.

I am a confirmed non-believer who has seen the light, but only if you are really in the long distance game at 600+ yard shooting. It certainly can't hurt to have it on for closer shots, but It might not be worth the money or bother depending on how much cant you tend to find yourself exhibiting without one.

This is why I love this forum. I'm always open to challenging my beliefs in order to improve a skill I love spending my free time engaged in. Thanks all who participated in this thread and especially those who adamantly backed having a scope level. Without that, I likely would never have purchased one... Let alone two.

James

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Interesting how this subject usually gets a lot of attention.

Q: Is a scope level needed?

A: For LR, you bet it is

Once you properly mount a level and sight down range with it you will not have to ask this question.

Q: How does one install a level on a rifle/scope that may or may not be level to start with?

...or... how does one properly install a level

A: I have had a lot of discussions on this topic with members here and yes there are several ways to do it. I use gravity which your bullet is a slave to.... I use a plumb bob.... not gonna explain anymore....you should be able to figure it out...and there are numerous threads on this topic

 

[jmitchell135]

Interesting how this subject usually gets a lot of attention.

Q: Is a scope level needed?

A: For LR, you bet it is

Once you properly mount a level and sight down range with it you will not have to ask this question.

Q: How does one install a level on a rifle/scope that may or may not be level to start with?

...or... how does one properly install a level

A: I have had a lot of discussions on this topic with members here and yes there are several ways to do it. I use gravity which your bullet is a slave to.... I use a plumb bob.... not gonna explain anymore....you should be able to figure it out...and there are numerous threads on this topic

Very cool. IT is neat that you were open minded and tried something different. I have a tendency to be hard headed and have to learn things the hard way.

 

[BergerBoy]

So what happened with the guys that didn't think a level was necessary but bought one to try? Did it make your groups more consistent or no change?

Just do the math past a 1k yards and you can see what even 1 degree can make. I believe you should have one but there are other factors.

Is your reticle perfectly perpendicular in your scope?

Is your scope mounted perfectly perp.?

Horus Vision sells some 8 ft. target test that will help eliminate certain issues you may have.

Good luck