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How critical is scope level?

IMHO the new scopes with internal reticle level indicators (SIG, Leupold) are what we will be seeing in the future. Internal reticles with level indicators will become much more "necessary" than illuminated reticles, especially for varmint and western US hunters. (And OZ and other "places with wide open spaces".)

I think this would solve Doug's cant problems - and mine too.

Eric B.
 
I like what I've read about levelling the scope/reticle. Unsure how to make rifle level without special tools...I've used a small level sitting on a machinist type 6" rule resting in the action before. Are there more exact ways?
There are certainly more reliable tools which have magnets that lock the level into the right spot and hold it there while you make your adjustements to the scope.

Just search for "scope leveling tools" at Brownell's or Midway.

A level that stays locked exactly onto your feed rails is essential to the process. Even a level that is locked onto a mounted rail can be off slightly to the feed rails dependent upon the exactness of where the mounting holes are drilled. I've seen more than one receiver that was drilled slightly off enter requiring shimming and bedding of the rail.
 
Why the discussion at 1000 yards? My experience is with a single load and a single rifle. We can talk in variables but if the question is criticality of a level you have to create a constant to measure the impact. My personal experience is based on hunting Antelope in Wyoming where shots can be out to 500 yards with 300 to 400 being the norm. At the 200 yard range using my 25-06 with 117 Sierra Game King and 52 grains of 4831SC, I found that without the level I can deviate as much as 4 inches one way or another. Admittedly there may be some wind but with only 200 yards it is not that much impact. The results with the rifle in a sled using a Vortex level I found the gun and load to be consistent at less than 1 inch at 200 yards. My personal belief is that if you shoot past 200 yards then the level is something that you cannot be without, especially since the cost is only about $25.
It just makes the math easier.
 
Installing a level perfectly is still only as good as the person using it.
Perform a tall target test and learn where exactly you need the bubble to be on the level.
Especially on bubbles atop the scope ring nearest the eye, you are looking at it with a sharp angle with your off eye, the bubble may look in the middle while behind the scope but if you sit up it may be to one side when you look down on it squarely.
Hopefully that makes sense
That's still the only tool most people will have in the field and why you should double check your level before pulling the trigger.
 
I have been lurking on this site for about a year , the members on here have a ton of knowledge . I can sit and read these posts for hours on end , having said that , I live in Canada , i've been hunting and shooting for a long time ( only out to 500 yds ) and I don't have a chance to shoot through the winter as the range is closed at my club , my poi first thing is the spring isn't close to what it is by fall and I do use a level . Practice , practice , practice .

Thanks for all the knowledge
If your POI is shifting you need to figure out what is wrong with your scope or mounts.

The other things that could affect your POI significantly are powder temp and perhaps weather effects on your stock.
 
I understand principle of setting the cross hairs to a level line at 100 yards (increasing the distance for setting the crosshairs) instead of the 50 feet that I am presently using. I do not have a Picatinny rail, the rings (Talley) are attached to a round receiver; round top Ruger 77. Presently when the rings are installed onto the rifle, I take the top of the split rings off, I "then" place the level off of the rings to get the rifle level, and "then" clamp the rifle in a Tipton vise to keep the rings/rifle level. Once the rifle is level, I level the crosshairs to a level line that I placed on the wall 50 feet away. If I use this process, only setting the crosshairs level with a plumb line at 100 yards, the scope ought to be mounted properly? The scope is a Leupold and there isn't a whole lot of bearing surface on the top of the scope cap or the internal turret, that is why I have not been leveling the scope referencing from the scope cap itself. Once the crosshairs are leveled to the axis of the rifle out to 100 yards and still clamped in the Tipton vise, "then" the cant scope ring is attached to the scope tube, and then leveled. I get what you have written in your post about doing trying to do everything possible to reduce your error, that too is what I am trying to accomplish. I do not know if I'll ever be taking an 800 yards shot, however I would like to ensure that my rifle is capable of making the shot if it presents itself. With all else in place I now have to work on the nut behind the trigger;):rolleyes:! Thank you for everyone's responses.
The cross hairs can be level against a plumb bob or what ever you use and the scope may not track vertically that is why the tall target test. the scope manufacturer may not be able to get it right. Ive never had a Nightorce miss a tall target test. http://appliedballisticsllc.com/Articles/TallTarget.pdf
 
If they are dialing up on turrets then maybe not as important since they are going off "center" with a new zero that is correct assuming it was level in the first place? I can definitely see the importance of a level when using your reticle for hold over though.
Doesn't matter if you are holding or dialing a rifle that is canted will send the bullet in the directing of the cant. The longer the shot the more off the bullet will be.
 
Doesn't matter if you are holding or dialing a rifle that is canted will send the bullet in the directing of the cant. The longer the shot the more off the bullet will be.
Agreed 100%. I worded my response poorly. My comment was in response to them not bothering to look at the bubble level. If the rifle was level to reticle from get go, and they dial up then they should have good impact even if rifle is a bit "canted" during shot. Now if you're canted and trust a holdover, you're going to have major windage and elevation issues. At least that's what my brain is thinking.
 
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Will I remember to check the level on the top of my rear scope ring in the excitement of aiming at my game?

The answer is "yes" IF I have a longer shot (over 100 yards).
It will be a slower target acquisition which means I'll consciously check the level, acquire the target in my sights while noting the leveled horizontal reticle in relation to the background.

That "noting the leveled horizontal reticle in relation to the background" is how I try to keep the scope level in competition and it transfers to hunting because of the repetition from dry fire practice with my Ruger Precision Rifle. Yep, it's necessary to check your bubble level but if you don't immediately check your reticle's horizontal crosshairs to see where "level" is in your sight picture you will "lose your level". This is why a reticle-based level like SIG or Leupold has (ON the reticle) is so important on a long range hunting rifle. It's much faster and always in your sight picture. No peeking around to check the bubble.

Eric B.
 
Shoot with both eyes open and you should be able to do both at the same time. Your point is more valid when shooting movers however. For anyone that has similar training, I'd be curious if they'd be looking at a bubble if trying to use an ambush method and looking at a bubble at the same time. My brain can't focus that hard these days
 
Shoot with both eyes open and you should be able to do both at the same time. Your point is more valid when shooting movers however. For anyone that has similar training, I'd be curious if they'd be looking at a bubble if trying to use an ambush method and looking at a bubble at the same time. My brain can't focus that hard these days
Ambush method works really well for a range mover in a controlled environment. I have my own mover system and I usually work on tracking. It's more difficult to do but has a more direct application to hunting
 
You combine both?
For sure. There is more than one way to skin it. Ambush = get out in front, know your lead edge hold and send it, Tracking, get your MPH or time of flight hold on where you want the bullet keep the rifle moving with the target and send it. Then there is trackbushing, follow the target pop out in front of it stop the rifle and send it. All of them have an application. Close range or alert game = tracking, longer shots game un witting = ambush, longer shots with clutter or obstacle = trackbushing
 
For sure. There is more than one way to skin it. Ambush = get out in front, know your lead edge hold and send it, Tracking, get your MPH or time of flight hold on where you want the bullet keep the rifle moving with the target and send it. Then there is trackbushing, follow the target pop out in front of it stop the rifle and send it. All of them have an application. Close range or alert game = tracking, longer shots game un witting = ambush, longer shots with clutter or obstacle = trackbushing
Great so we speak the same language and probably learned them from the same places. But back to the subject; can you do you look at a bubble level at the same time? With precision focus on top of it all. Because I can't.
 


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