Help chosing an Elk Cartridge.

[victorc]

I have a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in 270 WSM. I had a Vais muzzle brake installed. I use it for anything that can be hunted in Utah. The largest animal killed with it is my son's 345 6x8 bull elk at 240 yards in the shoulder with a 130 grain Nosler Accubond bullet.

 

[johnlittletree]

I am looking to build a lightweight rifle for mountain hunting. Primary game will be Elk with a maximum range of 400 yards. I also plan to use the gun at the range and would like to keep the recoil low.

A short action cartridge would be nice but am willing to compromise on this. I don't currently reload but am willing to spend the time to learn. The option for factory ammo is desired.

I have been considering these cartridges, 308, 270WSM, 7mm-08, 6.5PRC for short actions. 30-06, 270, 280AI if I go with long action.

If I do reloading I would like to use a cartridge and bullet weight combination that allows for reduced recoil loads. I would plan to use the lighter loads for practicing at the range.

Well given the choices you listed a 30-06 would be ideal. I would look for a #3 or lighter barrel and a 1:8 twist. Why 1:8 so that you can shoot any and all 30 Cal bullets even those 200gr+. To be honest if you are going to go 280 do not go 280 AI your not doing 30-06 AI. Anything with AI in it is reloading only! With the 280 Remington with 165gr.-180gr. will exceed the 30-06 due to better sectional density.

The 270 has a strong following for good reason. I would also consider 6.5-06 A-Square. If you are not currently reloading the 30-06 and 270 ammunition can be bought at grocery stores and gas stations across America.

Do you plan on hunting Moose and Caribou as well? When you start taking quartering shots at long range you can end up tracking the elk for hours and not kill it. If I am going to shoot Elk past 300m I like a round that will over penetrate so I get a good blood trail.

I like to use a 300 Win Mag or 7mm Rem Magnum ideally but I understand that noise and recoil is an issue for some. So if Magnums are out stick with something like 30-06, 270, 280 etc....

I have used a 25-06 before and it worked really well the problem with it was wind drift.

 

[victorc]

I have a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in 270 WSM. I had a Vais muzzle brake installed. I use it for anything that can be hunted in Utah. The largest animal killed with it is my son's 345 6x8 bull elk at 240 yards in the shoulder with a 130 grain Nosler Accubond bullet.

I have a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in 270 WSM. I had a Vais muzzle brake installed. I use it for anything that can be hunted in Utah. The largest animal killed with it is my son's 345 6x8 bull elk at 240 yards in the shoulder with a 130 grain Nosler Accubond bullet.

 

[Rflshootr]

If it were me, I'd pick a 308 for short action or an '06 for a long action. Why? Simple. 308 is an inherently accurate cartridge and the '06 has a bit more power but the pair of them are easy to load for and every major ammo manufacturer in this country produces more choices of these 2 cartridges then you will ever need. Not only that, because **** happens and ammo sometimes gets forgotten or a scope gets bumped and you run low, you can find either of these 2 at any sporting goods store that sells ammo and many other places as well.

 

[John Spadaro]

I'll throw my $0.02 in. No matter which cartridge you choose, stock design will make a significant difference on felt recoil. Especially when you are talking about a lightweight rifle. And there is a difference in the type of felt recoil with different cartridges. Some are more of a push vs. more of a punch.

I've had a lot of different rifles, and just for example, I had a 300 WSM that I MUCH preferred to shoot over a 308 I had. Lots of factors play a part.

I suggest that you pick a cartridge that:
1) Is enough to get the job done
2) You are confident enough with that when you pull the trigger, you know it's a done deal
3) You are comfortable shooting without any worries of recoil or doubts of bullet performance.

I believe that if those criteria are not met first, it won't matter what you choose.

What type of stock do you recommend? If I go with a custom built rifle, I was thinking of using either the McMillian Hunters Edge or Manners EH3. I am also looking at the Christensen Ridgeline or Fierce Carbon Edge. Since the custom builds have been taking about 8 months I will likely end up with the Fierce or Christensen.

 

[John Spadaro]

JS ~
In an attempt to address your specific goals of light weight for Elk, 400 yards, low recoil, Short action and a caliber that is on your list you might consider the boring but often over looked 270WSM. As a 300 rum / Accubond guy I certainly do relate to your quest. As we pursue game further and further back the weight issue is high on many of our lists. With that said too light is risky for consistent shot placement. A build with a premium long range or tactical heavier stock combined with the short action would be great.
The 30 WSM might be better but the 270WSM is just a sweet push. Take the time to look over the ballistics of that little cartridge with 150s. Easy to load up and great availability of off the self Elk ammo.

The rifles I have been considering weigh between 6.3 and 7 lbs. without the scope. Total weight 7.5 to 8.

I have been warned that the WSM has had feeding problem in some actions.

 

[Rflshootr]

As far as a stock, personally I like wood. There is nothing like a highly figured piece of walnut that just screams "WOW". if it had to be a composite, McMillian has some nice ones and you get to choose the colors that you like. A laminated stock is very durable, but adds a bit of weight. Just my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 107796]

The rifles I have been considering weigh between 6.3 and 7 lbs. without the scope. Total weight 7.5 to 8.

I have been warned that the WSM has had feeding problem in some actions.

The Tikkas are just shy of 6.4lb. I am wondering if your "warning" is coming from the same source as the 270WSM being out of favor! Just joshin.' I'm a WSM nut and pretty much load to max SAAMI O.A.L. specs and have had zero feed problems with my 4 WSMs. It's always good to get info from those that know vs just say.

 

[John Spadaro]

For lightweight and light recoil, it will be hard to beat the 6.5 Creedmoor (or one of it's ballistic twins). Plenty of power for elk well beyond 400 yards. The 6.5 PRC will increase your range but it's definitely more than you need for under 400 yards, plus it will kick more and have a shorter barrel life. One of the guys on LRSU recently took a nice bull at 1550 yards with the Creedmoor. That's definitely pushing it, but it to 7 or 800 yards, it's got reliable energy and better sectional density than most 30 cal bullets.

I have looked up the specs for each cartridge on the Hornady website using the Precision Hunter ELD-X data. Here is the comparison between Cartridges at 400 yards.

Velocity Energy Drop Bullet Wt.
6.5 CM 2156 1475 -22.4 143
6.5 PRC 2381 1800 -18.2 143
270 W 2306 1714 -18.8 145
270 WSM 2414 1876 -17.1 145
7MM-08 2173 1573 -21.6 150
280AI 2291 1888 -19.8 162
308 W 1984 1556 -25.5 178
30-06 2114 1766 -22.4 178

Here is the recoil for each cartridge in a 7.5 lb Rifle. This is an approximation as the formula requires the powder load which isn't specified for the factory Hornady cartridges.

Now the question is how much energy is required to kill an Elk at 400 yards. I have heard quoted Velocity greater than 1800 fps and energy greater than 1500 ft/lbs. If that is true then any of the cartridges I have looked at will be adequate. The 6.5 CM and the 7MM-08 have the least recoil but I think I can tolerate the 308, 6.5 PRC and 270W. Of all these the 270 would be the easiest to purchase.

 

[Danehunter]

I always considered my .300 Win mag Browning A-Bolt Stainless Stalker a good elk rifle. The .300 Win mag is likely the most popular elk cartridge.

You can go with a short magnum for a shorter action, lighter weight

OR the new 65. PRC which with a 143 gr. Hornady ELD-X bullet would take a bull elk up to 700 yards with a very flat trajectory. If I were doing it all over I would probably get a light rifle in this cartridge.

Eric B.

 

[Cavscout68]

I am looking to build a lightweight rifle for mountain hunting. Primary game will be Elk with a maximum range of 400 yards. I also plan to use the gun at the range and would like to keep the recoil low.

A short action cartridge would be nice but am willing to compromise on this. I don't currently reload but am willing to spend the time to learn. The option for factory ammo is desired.

I have been considering these cartridges, 308, 270WSM, 7mm-08, 6.5PRC for short actions. 30-06, 270, 280AI if I go with long action.

If I do reloading I would like to use a cartridge and bullet weight combination that allows for reduced recoil loads. I would plan to use the lighter loads for practicing at the range.

I would go 280 or 280AI. I have a 280AI and elk hunt with it. 7mm bullets have a great selection, many good powder choices, great ballistics and less recoil than a 308 or a 30/06. Also check with your guide (if using one) some have minimum size caliber restrictions. Never had a mature elk go more than 50yds after shot with my 280AI. 3 were 300-400yrd shots.

 

[Rflshootr]

The 7mm-08 isn't any slouch either. Actually I'm building one right now. Actually any of these will do if you make a well placed shot. I just prefer a larger diameter bullet for a big animal.

 

[jcc]

Another vote for the 270WSM. I have taken a couple elk with 140 grain Accubonds and then switched over to 129 grain Barnes LRX. Those LRX are screaming fast and I have had no issues with feeding. Last bull taken with the LRX was at 580yds and recovered the bullet on the far shoulder.


Also, I would vote for the 280AI as that is what I have been carrying the past two years. Two bulls so far and the 168 grain Bergers have been devastating. That rifle is a Kimber Mountain Ascent and very manageable despite the light weight. Great to carry, a little hard to shoot out to distance. An 8-9lb 280AI with a 26" barrel is going to be my next rig. Good luck.

 

[manitou]

Your gains are marginal with the ai version of the .280 if you handload. I wouldn't go either .280 unless you are a handloader... and if you are, it would be my #1 recommendation for performance, mild recoil and flat shooting.
Most everything discussed in this thread will kill very well in 400 yards with good bullets. Everybody is going to say what they shoot is best, so pick which caliber tugs at your heartstrings, shoot well-constructed bullets, be happy with your choice and forget all the internet advice. Be careful of anything with and "m" after it if you don't like recoil. Recoil does not kill animals, but it can affect accuracy and enjoyment!