Great discussion.

[TLC]

You can't just accept the comparison for what it is? Everyone wants to talk about ballistics, and a 300 win mag is certainly touted as an excellent elk catridge. Now that actual ballistics are brought up, now I need to compare it to a 30-338 Lapua improved?

I'm not arguing one way or another. Just shedding light on things.

You don't need a 30-338 to achieve 3250fps using a 215 Berger. I get that with a 300 RUM. I love my 6MM and large capacity 22's. They just aren't the best choice for larger game at longer distances.

 

[Huntnful]

You don't need a 30-338 to achieve 3250fps using a 215 Berger. I get that with a 300 RUM. I love my 6MM and large capacity 22's. They just aren't the best choice for larger game at longer distances.

Fair enough!! That's pretty screaming. I shot 215's at 3190fps out of a 26" 300 NMI with 93gr. N570. So that was my comparison haha.

And I wholeheartedly agree. Not the best for large game and longer ranges. I was just sharing a ballistic comparison because I bet most people mentioning ballistics have never even actually compared them.

And if you put a bonded bullet like a Accubond 210 LR or a mono like an LRX in the 300 win mag, it now has a smaller wound channel AND worse ballistics. But it's easy to say that just because it's a 300 win, that it's superior. But that isn't the case. I feel like we both clearly understand how to optimize a caliber for most effectiveness with cartridge size and bullet selection though. So, the bigger the better in that instance.

 

[mrjashu]

Mike, this is a hunting forum. I have zero need to post pictures of 10, 20 or 30 shot groups. It's rather irrelevant IMO. If this were a benchrest/target forum than I could see some validity to what I think you're scratching at. But.....beings that I'm a hunter, taking part in a discussion on a hunting forum...with regards to hunting scenarios, I stand by my experience that I have no problem continually and for the last 20 years, been able to shoot my larger caliber rifles as well as smaller ones. Again I feel we are moving goal posts by expanding unrealistic shot strings that are generally outside of the realm of hunting.

You made the claim that you can shoot your larger caliber rifles as well as your smaller ones, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for the data. It's nothing personal against you just that the data would speak for itself and would be the most powerful persuader. I know I would really love to see that kind of data presented.

 

[southpa]

You made the claim that you can shoot your larger caliber rifles as well as your smaller ones, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for the data. It's nothing personal against you just that the data would speak for itself and would be the most powerful persuader. I know I would really love to see that kind of data presented.

Well as I stated, this is a hunting forum. I don't shoot 10, 20, 30 shot groups. I have zero need to do that. How many times are you shooting 10, 20, 30 shots In a hunting scenario? I myself have never. I shoot 3-5 shot groups. The data you seek is irrelevant. It simply moves the goal post along as I said before. My data does speak for itself in a real world hunting scenario of 3-5 shots. If someone would like to continue to stack the deck and introduce statistics where they need not apply they will be proving my point of biased that I spoke of earlier.

 

[Huntnful]

Well as I stated, this is a hunting forum. I don't shoot 10, 20, 30 shot groups. I have zero need to do that. How many times are you shooting 10, 20, 30 shots In a hunting scenario? I myself have never. I shoot 3-5 shot groups. The data you seek is irrelevant. It simply moves the goal post along as I said before.

I understand what you're saying. But I believe he meant, same target, 10 different field shooting positions (10 different animals per se) at that same target. With a large and small cartridge.

I definitely think it would be interesting. But again, I think it would only show significant differences in positions other than prone with a rear bag.

 

[Muddybuddy]

I understand what you're saying. But I believe he meant, same target, 10 different field shooting positions (10 different animals per se) at that same target. With a large and small cartridge.

I definitely think it would be interesting. But again, I think it would only show significant differences in positions other than prone with a rear bag.

Will you post the ballistics of the 109s with a 10mph cross wind out to 1000 yards? Let me know elevation so we can compare apples. I could build it, but figured you might have it already. Want to compare it to my 7saum shooting 180 eldms and my 300nmi shooting 245s.

Thanks!

 

[mrjashu]

Will you post the ballistics of the 109s with a 10mph cross wind out to 1000 yards? Let me know elevation so we can compare apples. I could build it, but figured you might have it already. Want to compare it to my 7saum shooting 180 eldms and my 300nmi shooting 245s.

Thanks!

The original post bound the discussion to 600yds and in but your point still has merit. I shoot 180eldms out of a 7saum. Using my load compared to a theoretical 108 eldm@3000fps I've got a 5 inch drift advantage in a 10mph wind over the 6mm. That's not insignificant.

 

[mrjashu]

Well as I stated, this is a hunting forum. I don't shoot 10, 20, 30 shot groups. I have zero need to do that. How many times are you shooting 10, 20, 30 shots In a hunting scenario? I myself have never. I shoot 3-5 shot groups. The data you seek is irrelevant. It simply moves the goal post along as I said before. My data does speak for itself in a real world hunting scenario of 3-5 shots. If someone would like to continue to stack the deck and introduce statistics where they need not apply they will be proving my point of biased that I spoke of earlier.

Well personally I've been trying to shoot at least 10 shots whenever I need statistically significant data such as when zero'ing or determining my precision with a given rifle/load/position. Relying on only 3-5 shots really increases the chance of the data lying to me. Looking for more valid data isn't stacking the deck I don't think. The way I look at it if I shoot 3 shot groups, I can do that 4 times on the same target and I've got much more trustworthy data to make decisions with.

 

[RichCoyle]

Why is a braked big rifle harder to shoot than a small one?

 

[RichCoyle]

That's quite the takeaway from the conversation. No one said you cant use a magnum. Words like "average" and "typical" clearly don't apply to a god like yourself, so try not to get so offended when we talk about the "typical" shooter. I get it, you like magnums and can slay deer at ridiculous distances with them. You're still missing the basic point of the whole conversation. The "average" shooter can't shoot a magnum well, and using too much gun is a poor choice. So take the gun that you shoot well (even if it's from the "small caliber cult") and keep the range decent, and life is better for everyone. That's literally all that's being said. Dont take offense where there isn't any being given.

Lots of the people here are not typical of hunters.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

I have a 8# 416 Rigby. I'm less than 2 hours from you. I will pay for the gas in your stick shift if you can shoot it 10 times prone without your nose bleeding, your collar bone snapping, or you losing consciousness.

Who in da hell builds an 8lb Rigby?
Are you a Pro Wrestler?

 

[RichCoyle]

mrjashu,
Maybe I am different. The best groups I fired were with an eleven pound .375 Wildcat firing 300 grain bullets at about 3,000 feet per second.

Big kickers with good brakes are as good as any small guns.

 

[RichCoyle]

How about showing us 10, 20 or even 30 round groups from hunting shooting positions with your largest chambered rifle and do the same with the smallest legal on for your area.

Unless you are some minuscule group of people that shoot like a machine, you will not shoot the larger cartridge as well.

Why would any reasonable person who pays for their own stuff fire that many shots?

 

[Phil Rizzo]

If your form, pull and rest are equal, I don't know what differentiates 30-338 cal from .224 or .244 or anything else PROVIDED the weight of the larger ones is enough to keep it from moving excessively between ignition and bullet exit.
If fear or sensitivity causes a change in form and pull, or the blast is excessive to you, I'd think a step or 2 down is in order.
What am I missing?