Flagstaff AZ human caused, again.

[brcfo_outdoors]

TP doesn't break down as fast as people would like to believe, most high traffic areas in the Sierra Nevada for example require you to pack it out. Setting up camp on the JMT and it seemed like every rock I moved for the tent had a wad underneath it.

 

[LkeAF]

That Caldor fire was a straight **** show...Forest Circus didn't know what day it was half the time. That fire was 100% stoppable long before it got to where it got.

These large campaigns are money driven far more than anything else. What's the incentive to put the fire out when you're making OT, hazard pay, per diem, etc etc etc....$250,000 per drop from the DC-10...might help more if it didn't drop 5 miles from the fire.

Retardant doesn't just get dropped on the head of the fire. Competent strategy & tactics often determine that the best point for establishing fire/retardant line may be quite a ways in front of it. You not understanding that fact makes me question your knowledge and experience. I am a structure FF and a wildland Engine Boss. None of what you guys claim in this thread matches the reality that I have experienced.
It just never ceases to amaze me how every thread on this forum devolves into a conspiracy theory about absolutely everything. Hard working firefighters committed to training and trying to do good and you guys have to have a conspiracy about it. You should be ashamed, but I am sure that you are not. The best thing we (public safety and medical professional) could ever do for the longevity of this country would be to step aside and let you conspiracy theorists handle your problems yourselves. Dont' want to get vaccinated? Fine, stay home if you get Covid. No hospital bed, no ambulance. Don't like how the Type 1 team handles that wildfire? Fine, put it out yourselves. I would absolutely love to see that.

 

[adam32+P]

Retardant doesn't just get dropped on the head of the fire. Competent strategy & tactics often determine that the best point for establishing fire/retardant line may be quite a ways in front of it. You not understanding that fact makes me question your knowledge and experience. I am a structure FF and a wildland Engine Boss. None of what you guys claim in this thread matches the reality that I have experienced.
It just never ceases to amaze me how every thread on this forum devolves into a conspiracy theory about absolutely everything. Hard working firefighters committed to training and trying to do good and you guys have to have a conspiracy about it. You should be ashamed, but I am sure that you are not. The best thing we (public safety and medical professional) could ever do for the longevity of this country would be to step aside and let you conspiracy theorists handle your problems yourselves. Dont' want to get vaccinated? Fine, stay home if you get Covid. No hospital bed, no ambulance. Don't like how the Type 1 team handles that wildfire? Fine, put it out yourselves. I would absolutely love to see that.

You seem to forget that before you "highly trained wildland firefighters" existed, the fires still got put out and much quicker...even without all the fancy stuff you guys have at your disposal.

Of course phos-chek doesn't get dropped on the head of the fire, but miles and miles away also isn't a good strategy.

Also, a structure FF and wildland engine boss are two completely different things, so either you're not both of them or you work for a tiny entity that "does" both sometimes.

You need more experience if nothing on this thread matches your reality.

Take away your OT and see how fast the fires go out...it's all about the $$$.

At the end of the day, the USFS is directly responsible for the largest fire in NM history, that's a FACT not a conspiracy.

And how did this turn into a covid thread? Geeeeez try to stay on topic at least.

 

[HockeyDad]

Not to detract from the fire issue, but I'm curious what happened to just burying your excrement and toilet paper? Did I miss the memo because I see it all over in the woods, and now people are trying to burn it?

My guess is, Alex Jones told his followers to get rid of all traces of their dna so "the globalists" couldn't use it to turn them into robot pedophiles.

 

[Predator 22]

Retardant doesn't just get dropped on the head of the fire. Competent strategy & tactics often determine that the best point for establishing fire/retardant line may be quite a ways in front of it. You not understanding that fact makes me question your knowledge and experience. I am a structure FF and a wildland Engine Boss. None of what you guys claim in this thread matches the reality that I have experienced.
It just never ceases to amaze me how every thread on this forum devolves into a conspiracy theory about absolutely everything. Hard working firefighters committed to training and trying to do good and you guys have to have a conspiracy about it. You should be ashamed, but I am sure that you are not. The best thing we (public safety and medical professional) could ever do for the longevity of this country would be to step aside and let you conspiracy theorists handle your problems yourselves. Dont' want to get vaccinated? Fine, stay home if you get Covid. No hospital bed, no ambulance. Don't like how the Type 1 team handles that wildfire? Fine, put it out yourselves. I would absolutely love to see that.

Medical professional huh?
YOU should be the one ashamed of yourself. Hypocritic oath mean anything to you? "Dont' want to get vaccinated? Fine, stay home if you get Covid. No hospital bed, no ambulance."
I think I speak for a lot of people here when I say this is a free country, I'm not going to have people like you and people in the government forcing me to take a experimental vaccine. If you want to more power to you. I don't care in the least. Just don't try forcing it on the people that don't want nor need it.

 

[LkeAF]

You seem to forget that before you "highly trained wildland firefighters" existed, the fires still got put out and much quicker...even without all the fancy stuff you guys have at your disposal.

Of course phos-chek doesn't get dropped on the head of the fire, but miles and miles away also isn't a good strategy.

Also, a structure FF and wildland engine boss are two completely different things, so either you're not both of them or you work for a tiny entity that "does" both sometimes.

You need more experience if nothing on this thread matches your reality.

Take away your OT and see how fast the fires go out...it's all about the $$$.

At the end of the day, the USFS is directly responsible for the largest fire in NM history, that's a FACT not a conspiracy.

And how did this turn into a covid thread? Geeeeez try to stay on topic at least.

We are a city fire department surrounded by federal land, so we have initial attack responsibilities and, like many other western departments, we deploy around the country to assist with structure protection and wildland fire suppression. You're probably right though, I only have 15 years experience, so I probably don't know much..... But yes, I am very much looking forward to retirement so that I an stop helping people like you. I'm over it. Your house can burn to the ground for all I care.
Your blanket statement that painting a line several miles ahead of the fire being done for some conspiratorial BS reason, is just that, BS. Which was the point of my statement about being vaxxed for Covid. It's like the government (you know, FF's, school teachers, police, military, etc.) can't do anything right according to most folks on this forum. And "we" (gov't employees) must all be in on some big conspiracy. It's nauseating, laughable, and pathetically ignorant at the same time.

 

[LkeAF]

Medical professional huh?
YOU should be the one ashamed of yourself. Hypocritic oath mean anything to you? "Dont' want to get vaccinated? Fine, stay home if you get Covid. No hospital bed, no ambulance."
I think I speak for a lot of people here when I say this is a free country, I'm not going to have people like you and people in the government forcing me to take a experimental vaccine. If you want to more power to you. I don't care in the least. Just don't try forcing it on the people that don't want nor need it.

Not trying to force you to. You can make your own choice. You just need to also accept those consequences. I'm fine with that.

 

[adam32+P]

We are a city fire department surrounded by federal land, so we have initial attack responsibilities and, like many other western departments, we deploy around the country to assist with structure protection and wildland fire suppression. You're probably right though, I only have 15 years experience, so I probably don't know much..... But yes, I am very much looking forward to retirement so that I an stop helping people like you. I'm over it. Your house can burn to the ground for all I care.
Your blanket statement that painting a line several miles ahead of the fire being done for some conspiratorial BS reason, is just that, BS. Which was the point of my statement about being vaxxed for Covid. It's like the government (you know, FF's, school teachers, police, military, etc.) can't do anything right according to most folks on this forum. And "we" (gov't employees) must all be in on some big conspiracy. It's nauseating, laughable, and pathetically ignorant at the same time.

Lol I am a government employee and also part of a Fire Dept. Get off your high horse.

You can stop right now if you're "over it" but you won't because of your $$$ and retirement.

 

[Predator 22]

Not trying to force you to. You can make your own choice. You just need to also accept those consequences. I'm fine with that.

I will gladly accept any consequences for my actions by not being vaxed. But if you and your medical professional cronies don't think it is your responsibility and duty to take care of people, no matter their choices, I think it fair that we the taxpayers can and should withhold our money from the hospitals and ems service taxes we pay. Consequences for your actions or lack their of.

 

[LkeAF]

I will gladly accept any consequences for my actions by not being vaxed. But if you and your medical professional cronies don't think it is your responsibility and duty to take care of people, no matter their choices, I think it fair that we the taxpayers can and should withhold our money from the hospitals and ems service taxes we pay. Consequences for your actions or lack their of.

I think you should do just that. Just stop paying your taxes and hospital bills. Great idea! And FWIW, it's "hippocratic".

 

[Ckgworks]

It's not that many people think government employees can't do anything right, it's that many of them forget that they work FOR the people not the other way around. Much of the poor management of government agencies is based on "feelings" and thoughts if what's good. Hence the lack of true timber management.

 

[Predator 22]

I think you should do just that. Just stop paying your taxes and hospital bills. Great idea! And FWIW, it's "hippocratic".

Yes it is. Forgive me, I don't always catch auto correct smart guy.

 

[LkeAF]

It's not that many people think government employees can't do anything right, it's that many of them forget that they work FOR the people not the other way around. Much of the poor management of government agencies is based on "feelings" and thoughts if what's good. Hence the lack of true timber management.

I don't disagree with you, and I appreciate the clarification. And I would agree with Adam32p that wildland fire overhead is extremely inefficient. But that's different than alleging a conspiracy to perpetuate fires so that the crews can make more money. That's BS. And it's pretty frustrating and disappointing to see how every public servant gets disparaged on this forum as being part of some nefarious conspiracy. It's just dumb.

 

[PBramble]

The fact that common sense is anything but common, and sometimes you just can't fix stupid.

Ultimately money in one way or another, plays a role in all this too. Private fire fighting and prevention has been a fast growing industry in California over the last few years, and its big money. Utility companies like PG&E and SCE don't want to spend the money to maintain their equipment. Then they cause the Paradise and Woolsey fires and get sued so now they are actually taking an interest in it. These same companies will shut off the power you are paying for if it gets windy to protect themselves and act like they are doing you a service.

Oh, they will fix it. They'll have to bury all the lines to keep the fires from happening when the wind blows. Guess who's gonna foot that bill? Not them. And then everyone will complain about how high their electric bill is. They can't win either way.