First Focal Plane Vs. Second Focal Plane

[jreagle]

thanks for the reply and pics in #277 Orkan. Food for thought.....
John R

 

[emn83]

this has been an interesting thread to read...lots to think about, since the scope I am looking fot the next build I'm planning is FFP

 

[bigngreen]

So if you shoot at 5x with the MOAR reticle the first tic for windage is already over 8MOA. So if you need 2MOA you can divide the "space" between the center and the first tic mark with the needed precision, instead of simply increasing magnification ? This at distances of 400-600 yards ? I personally don't know too many people who would choose to shoot with a scope on Min magnification at those ranges. Nor would I be capable of the kind of interpolation you are suggesting. At 8x on my 4-16 one can recognize the tic marks just fine and for 400 yards I would be on 16x. Field of view of the NXS at 100yds on 5x is 17.5ft thus at 400 it is 70ft. You are going to shoot at an object with a vertical dimension of 14-20" with the scope set to a field of view of 70-105ft ? By choice ? And that makes FFP scopes unsuitable ?

What do you think we used before variable scopes, I don't have any issue toasting something on 4x IF my reticle comes to the show, if I'm walking my scope is on min or if I'm sitting calling it on min and if I pull up and I have my cross hair why screw with it when I should be shooting.

 

[westcliffe01]

So you just plain reject technology ? Clearly a Weaver 4x or 6x is a heck of a lot cheaper than a good FFP scope. You would deliberately choose not to dial up the magnification when it is at your disposal.

Sorry, if I have it I am using it. If you won't use it when you have it, it follows pretty well why you would not pay for anything additional.

The benefit of the FFP is that my graduations are on over a wide range of magnifications, but I will not claim that one can read them on Min magnification. Few hunters I have spoken to would choose to engage a target at 400-600 yards without increasing magnification when it is available. However, I am not forced to use a specific magnification or apply a scale to the reticle. Provided I can see it, I can use it. If I can't see the reticle and the target is not right in front of me, I am dialing up the magnification. It takes less time to do that than trying to hit on the second shot.

What do you think we used before variable scopes, I don't have any issue toasting something on 4x IF my reticle comes to the show, if I'm walking my scope is on min or if I'm sitting calling it on min and if I pull up and I have my cross hair why screw with it when I should be shooting.

 

[westcliffe01]

I had my first look at the 6-24x50 Viper FFP tonight. It looks like at 24x the field of view is 50MOA or just a hair over. I was surprised that at 6x the reticle is far more legible than at 4x on my 4-16 (min magnification for both). At 24x one can no longer see the broad outer lines of the reticle, the central portion fills the field of view.

If I ever get my Remington back from Mc Gowan, I will be able to provide a more detailed report...

 

[emn83]

I had my first look at the 6-24x50 Viper FFP tonight. It looks like at 24x the field of view is 50MOA or just a hair over. I was surprised that at 6x the reticle is far more legible than at 4x on my 4-16 (min magnification for both). At 24x one can no longer see the broad outer lines of the reticle, the central portion fills the field of view.

If I ever get my Remington back from Mc Gowan, I will be able to provide a more detailed report...

Good to know. I currently have a SFP PST, got it because I'm used to SFP but am interested in the FFP Viper too.

 

[mildot1960]

Hi Y'all heres something that covers most of what we have gone through here

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6riHRpK-Qgo]How To Select A Variable Power Scope - YouTube[/ame]


it covers the use's and FFP along with SFP

john

 

[bigngreen]

So you just plain reject technology ? Clearly a Weaver 4x or 6x is a heck of a lot cheaper than a good FFP scope. You would deliberately choose not to dial up the magnification when it is at your disposal.

Sorry, if I have it I am using it. If you won't use it when you have it, it follows pretty well why you would not pay for anything additional.

The benefit of the FFP is that my graduations are on over a wide range of magnifications, but I will not claim that one can read them on Min magnification. Few hunters I have spoken to would choose to engage a target at 400-600 yards without increasing magnification when it is available. However, I am not forced to use a specific magnification or apply a scale to the reticle. Provided I can see it, I can use it. If I can't see the reticle and the target is not right in front of me, I am dialing up the magnification. It takes less time to do that than trying to hit on the second shot.

I have no issues with technology at all nor do I have an issue with FFP if that's what your rockn, been there didn't like it at all but that was a while ago with some fatty mil dot reticle.

I will likely order the Vortex HS LR FFP with the XLR reticle since it is relatively thin, the PST FFP EBR-1 won't cut it for my use since the reticle I currently use is pushing it for me and it's thinner than the PST FFP EBR-1.

Why would I screw with turning my scope up if I don't need to, the animal is there and the reticle is there what point is there to screwing with something that is GTG. I really like the reticle staying the same, every time I look through my optic my aim point is always the same and I find that more important for me than having the substentions staying the same all the time.

 

[Broz]

I really like the reticle staying the same, every time I look through my optic my aim point is always the same and I find that more important for me than having the substentions staying the same all the time.

I like the way you think!!!lightbulb


Jeff

 

[mildot1960]

Bros, The Shop where I buy all my gear from said the same as we have said all along and told me not to go down the FFP road, and to stick with what I like so if it ain't broke dont fix it,

john

 

[westcliffe01]

Sorry, I must just be a bit slow on the uptake... Seems there is no question in this thread. Its just a chance for the establishment (2nd FP) to bash on anyone dumb enough to buy a FFP, even though those of us who bought the Vortex scopes are out less money than you... Vortex seems to have great customer service too and judging by waiting times on some models, the market acceptance has grown substantially.

My hunting success has improved since I got my FFP scope and I don't regret buying it one bit. I haven't heard people complaining about the turrets or the illumination either.

I cannot speak for the true "high end" scopes, since I am not well enough heeled to own one and the future does not seem to bode well for prosperity for the majority of us. I will continue to let curious shooters look through my scopes since nothing beats hands on experience to help make your own decisions. Your right to self determination is in your own hand (and mind).

 

[mildot1960]

Sorry, I must just be a bit slow on the uptake... Seems there is no question in this thread. Its just a chance for the establishment (2nd FP) to bash on anyone dumb enough to buy a FFP, even though those of us who bought the Vortex scopes are out less money than you... Vortex seems to have great customer service too and judging by waiting times on some models, the market acceptance has grown substantially.

My hunting success has improved since I got my FFP scope and I don't regret buying it one bit. I haven't heard people complaining about the turrets or the illumination either.

I cannot speak for the true "high end" scopes, since I am not well enough heeled to own one and the future does not seem to bode well for prosperity for the majority of us. I will continue to let curious shooters look through my scopes since nothing beats hands on experience to help make your own decisions. Your right to self determination is in your own hand (and mind).

Well Mate I still want one either way, I'm not prepared to give up on either format dispite the pros and cons of both types, Isn't that why we got into shooting no matter what range we shoot and we keep going till we succeed don't we???

John

 

[orkan]

I don't think you're slow at all westcliffe. I talk to customers almost every day that also claim their success has gone up after switching to FFP. They like the system, and they love being free from their magnification ring.

It's quite clear that FFP shooters are in the minority here. It doesn't discourage me one bit, and you shouldn't let it discourage or upset you either.

 

[mildot1960]

Establishment??? What the heck do you want from this thread?, dont be offended just because some people dont walk the same road as you, these scopes are only as good as the user/shooter, as I have said before I have seen people with $150 rifles win the day and some with $6000 rifle do the same,

Its not about what you spend or who is right, IT is about what is right for YOU,

and its not about buying just because ya Mate likes it,