Fired Brass Can't be Re-Sized

[Steve gavette]

Are you using a .308 die? Like you I have been reloading for over 45 years, not a competition shooter. Using a conversion calculator a .308 = 7.8232mm. You will encounter the same problems with the 5.56 like I have. Reloads jam like crazy. Although the difference in a 5.56 using a 223 die, .223 in = 5.6642 mm. You take those differences and it is understandable why you will have problems. I contacted RCBS (which is what I use) about these differences and if enough reloaders will do the same, perhaps they may consider production of actual dies for these calibers. This is basically attempting to fire a .45 round in a .44 mag using the same cylinder, it's not going to happen.

7.62=.30 cal, which all the .30 cal platforms are. All the ones that shoot .308 cal projectiles, anyway.

 

[P7M13]

Very informative thread. Presuming they fit, I would get a Wilson Combat barrel, replace the barrel and be done with it. Save yourself time and headache. You can probably sell the LaRue barrel for more than a WC would cost you. Or run with the LaRue barrel, get custom dies, and use only 7.62 brass.
On principle, both you and the manufacturer have legitimate positions. The gun ruins your cases, but it wasn't clearly stated in their sales literature. They publish specs on their product, you didn't see it, but it's not their responsibility to ensure your satisfaction.

What I didn't expect to read in this thread was dialog between a caller and Dr. Ruth:

It's hard, but it goes, I usually do it in thirds, push it in a third , pull it out, then in, out, then all the way in. I've tried sizing with the spray lubes including 1shot and that IS pretty much impossible ! So my question is, what LUBE are you using?

"We did not build this rifle for reloaders. We built it for war fighters so it would function with any ammo under any conditions. And, that is exactly what it does."

Sold through retail channels on the civilian market. I guess Antifa is kitting up? That didn't go over so well in Austin or Golden.

 

[Steve gavette]

True, but they wouldn't be the first to hide behind terms like that to enforce a sale.

Which I happen to think is finacial suicide in today's more and more connected world. This thread will show up in a diligent search on that mfg or that peculiar chamber.

Going by the line of BS thus far, I would tend to agree, but will withhold judgement until they refuse all remedies

 

[cohunt]

I am sure those restriction on returns are if you simply want to return the item, not in cases of defect.

why is it defective?

dont get me wrong, I'd be upset if I couldnt reload for a rifle I bought either, but you have to take a step back and clear the personal feelings and look at what he bought-- they never said brass could be reloaded, they clearly stated that it is their (proprietary) chamber design (Xran)-- they clearly state that once it's fired it cant be returned

a battle may get a refund, but its going to be a long hard road IMO

he told them the issue of cycling and they told him to break it in more-- if he wants to pursue a return for defect he has to do what they ask to prove its defective , so then next step would be to "break it in" more as per his conversation in regards to not cycling the fggm ammo

 

[David Green]

Man, I've used lake city brass that I'm sure was fired in a Machine gun, I know they have "sloppy" chambers. I used imperial sizing wax and it works. It's hard, but it goes, I usually do it in thirds, push it in a third , pull it out, then in, out, then all the way in. I've tried sizing with the spray lubes including 1shot and that IS pretty much impossible ! So my question is, what LUBE are you using?


And to answer your BOLD question. In my opinion, yes I think it's a loose"er" chamber.

I echo T3ninja. Just last week I resized over 200 Lake City 7.62 that I KNOW was fired out of an M60 (machine gun) because my crewman pulled the trigger over 25 years ago - I have a 5 gal bucket, I am working my way through. I use standard RCBS 308 dies and Hornaday resizing wax. It takes just one single stroke, nothing Herculean, certainly a firm effort required. The primers audibly "pop" because they are crimped in pretty hard. Sometimes I can see a short horizontal line above the case web indicating pre case head separation, which confirms the generous chamber they were fired from. Of course, most of what you have shared points to a bad chamber, but I like the previous advice to eliminate the variables you can - take off the suppressor and re-check.

 

[cohunt]

what if the OP were to send a few fired cases to other members with 308 dies--let them try to resize the brass and see if other people encounter the same sizing issues--that would 100% rule out a sizing/die/lube issues if every one was unable to resize them--I doubt that 308w dies work right though as techniquilly it would need 7.62 xtraxn dies as the chamber design is propriety (as they disclose in their description on line)

of course LaRue doesnt really care if you can resize the brass or not, but it might put the OP at ease a bit

I'm up for it to help out if the OP wants to try it, just PM me and we will figure something out

 

[wolffo]

first get 500 breakin rounds thru it

then replace the barrel yourself with exactly what you want

try to sell the original or keep it as a backup

sending guns back "to be looked over" is a waste of time
Been there done that

good luck

 

[Blackhawk]

I think it would be very interesting to run a .308 chamber go- nogo gauge in your rifle just to see whether or not your rifle's bolt will close on the no-go gauge.
Just wondering if, in fact, you are experiencing a headspace problem.
Possibility Yes? No? / Maybe?
Or is it as other posts suggest you may have an oversize chamber!

 

[cohunt]

I think it would be very interesting to run a .308 chamber go- nogo gauge in your rifle just to see whether or not your rifle bolt will close on the no-go gauge.
Just wondering if, in fact, you are experiencing a headspace problem.
Possibility Yes? No? / Maybe?

I'm sure it would, its not a 308 chamber its a 7.62 xtraxn chamber-- 7.62 nato "max" gauge might close as well because technically its not a 7.62 nato chamber also-- the OP has gotten a rude awakening to "proprietary" --I had a similar issue with a different manufactures proprietary lr308 a few years ago-- I wasted time and money and lots of stress for nothing--I finally sold it and i learned along the way about the word "proprietary"

 

[bushmotornv]

woolecox wrote: 2. How much more information is a chamber casting going to give me over the fired case?
You are going to need all the proof available !! I'm bettin' making a chamber cast will be the first thing the company does once ( if ever) the rifle is in their hands for inspection.

I think that a chamber cast will tell you if the chamber is in spec or not,narrowing down whether or not the bolt is unlocking early. Where is the brass ejecting? I load 178gr ELDM's with Varget, and Peterson or Starline cases.and my chamber is a .308 Win. And yes,it beats up the brass pretty good.

 

[cohunt]

I think that a chamber cast will tell you if the chamber is in spec or not,narrowing down whether or not the bolt is unlocking early. Where is the brass ejecting? I load 178gr ELDM's with Varget, and Peterson or Starline cases.and my chamber is a .308 Win. And yes,it beats up the brass pretty good.

There in lies the problem -- THE CHAMBER IS PROPRIETARY -- what is the actual spec? its a LaRue Tactical 7.62 Xtraxn chamber that will fire 308w and 7.62x51 ammunition, buts its a special chamber design-- where would you find such chamber specifications to know it is out of spec?

 

[ntsqd]

If they patented it there may be chamber dimensions in the patent. However, knowing those dims doesn't do any good or help solve the problem.

 

[bushmotornv]

There in lies the problem -- THE CHAMBER IS PROPRIETARY -- what is the actual spec? its a LaRue Tactical 7.62 Xtraxn chamber that will fire 308w and 7.62x51 ammunition, buts its a special chamber design-- where would you find such chamber specifications to know it is out of spec?

Yes,I see that now,and popped off before I finished reading. My bad! I agree with proprietary, the chsmber is proprietary as I'm sure the barrel is proprietary to the upper. Probably best not to take it apart as it would most likely hurt the resale value. However,to me I would want an autopsy.

 

[iamrenn]

I have made several purchases from Larue and have held a high opinion of the company. They market their products as highest quality and charge accordingly. Very disappointed in their response. No way I could live with that. They sound like: "We found it difficult to make a quality chamber but realized a silver lining was we could patant reamer chatter". I appreciate your efforts to share a difficult process relating to an entity with some reputation. I like your reasoning and agree with your perspective.