Fired Brass Can't be Re-Sized

[asd9055]

Requesting a full refund I think is the right approach. That automatically elevates it to the next level of customer support. I think LaRue can learn a lot from Leupold and Ruger when it comes to customer service. I had issues that I created on a scope and on a firearm. Totalyl my fault, yet both Leupold and Ruger took care of me at their cost. I was ready to pay and they said no.

 

[lyle2231]

I just got a factory new AR10 chambered in 7.62 NATO (308Win). My first 7.62 auto loader. I am a reloader. I have been doing it for 30 years now. I have been an active Bench Rest, PRS, and IDPA competitor and, reload for all those disciplines. I also reload all my hunting ammo. So, I am pretty sure I know what I am doing and am confident my equipment is up to and exceeds par.

Using a box of new Lapua 308 Win brass I had on hand, I loaded up several "ladders" that consisted of 168SMK, 175SMK, 175VLD-H, and 178ELD-X. All respectable bullets. All were loaded using various weights of Varget power, and GM210M primers. All top shelf components. None of the loads were anywhere near max. In most, at least two full grains short. No over pressure signs.

I also shot a couple of factory loads, Hornady Black 168AMAX, and Federal Gold Medal Match. All reloads and factory ammo functioned flawlessly except the factory Fed GMM. It was not powerful enough to strip the next round from the magazine and closed on an empty chamber. "CLICK". The GMM did function flawlessly with the gun suppressed but the groups were terrible. All other groups were near or under 1 MOA for 5 shots. The best was the 178ELD-X that grouped .62" and clocked 2500 fps. It's a 20" barrel.

To the point: All cases except for the Hornady case will not go through my resizing dies. Even with the Hornady I really had to stand on the lever to get them sized. When I measured the fired cases, all dimensions were around a full .01" larger than factory new. A full hundredth. No way they are going through a die. Yes, I used multiple dies; Redding FL, Redding Type S, Redding Shoulder Bump, Forster FL, and Forster Bushing Bump. Not happening.

So the question: Can this be anything other than an extremely loose chamber?

I am going to contact the factory as soon as possible but, that may be impossible with most companies being flat on their butt "due to COVID".

Here is one of the better groups. The factory Hornady AMAX did just as well.
View attachment 205436

Another AR smith is Compass Lake Engineering . Mr White is an excellent gas gun smith. He'll be able to diagnose the barrel. Last resort have him rebarrel.

 

[woolecox]

according to the SAAMI 308w print, the only "out of spec" brass would be the lapua-- the saami print does show .4714" + .002" so up to .4734" would be within specs-- but we have all learned that LaRue is not chambering these rifles to SAAMI spec so that is a moot point

is the barrel or receiver marked with a specific cartridge? or do they just say "7.62mm" ?

The barrel is not marked. The lower just says LT-10 and Multi-Cal.

 

[cohunt]

The barrel is not marked. The lower just says LT-10 and Multi-Cal.

Interesting as I was pretty sure per atf rules that the caliber/cartridge has to be marked either on the barrel or receiver--- the multi-cal on the receiver should then default to the caliber marking on the barrel, unless the rules have changed. --- sometimes the barrel is marked under the handguard.

 

[cajun]

Man this sucks. I feel for you. This is not a cheap weapon. I would play nice try and get a return. If they tell you to f off. Then go on every forum and tell your story. Power of social media. If they dont offer a resolution sell the barrel with full disclosure and re barrel. .

 

[ntsqd]

From previous reading LaRue makes it sound like a lot of the assembly details are proprietary. It would not surprise me if the only barrels that will fit are made by LaRue. If this is correct, why they felt the need to differ from either the DPMS or AR Stoner patterns is beyond me. Those patterns work for everyone else, and when put together correctly work very well at that. Can only conclude that their goal is to lock their customers into only buying from them. That almost never works in the long run.

 

[iamrenn]

It always amazes me that apparently successful companies get away with establishing their images purely through marketing and somehow have no system at all for resolution of their failures. Customers are a cash cow to be milked at all opportunities and resented/bullied/dismissed when they expect service. Very one way: "Give us your money for our amazing best of class product, feel free to praise us, are you sure you don't want to buy one of our very ordinary $20 snap-backs?, you've made a very wise purchase here. Now, don't talk to us unless you want to make another purchase, we love your money. Thanks boss".

 

[SteelBanger]

Man it sucks how this is going down for you. From the material they provide on that proprietary chamber there is nothing to lead one to believe that you can't shoot normal .308 ammo and reload the brass from it. That's on them and they should certainly make it clear exactly what that chamber is and what that means for the brass. It almost seems like it needs to be distinguished as a wildcat chamber that can shoot the .308 cartridge. I'm guessing they aren't going to provide any resolution for you, and that's a painful lesson to learn but at least you've provided that valuable information in this thread to warn off potential future buyers who do any amount of research on the product and find this thread.

If it were me and no resolution is provided, I would simply re-barrel it with a quality barrel because that is likely less expensive than the hit you'd take on the re-sale. Of course that's assuming there's nothing proprietary about the barrel / receiver connection.

 

[woolecox]

Interesting as I was pretty sure per atf rules that the caliber/cartridge has to be marked either on the barrel or receiver--- the multi-cal on the receiver should then default to the caliber marking on the barrel, unless the rules have changed. --- sometimes the barrel is marked under the handguard.

You are right, again. It is hard to see through the handguard but down near the barrel nut on the right side is engraved "308/7.62". There are some others numbers that I can't make out and impossible to photograph.

 

[cohunt]

Ok, so technically they have marked it with the caliber and not the cartridge-- once again being slightly deceptive

 

[Dean2]

Ok, so technically they have marked it with the caliber and not the cartridge-- once again being slightly deceptive

From reading this thread and everything that is on LaRue website there is nothing slightly deceptive about it. If these guys were on the up and up there would be a clear explanation of the implications of all of their "proprietary" parts, chamber and other pieces. Expecting anyone who has never owned one of their guns to figure that out on their own is BS. This company needs to do much better or face going out of business because word will get around.

The worst that would happen with a clear explanation is some people would not buy the gun, but at least then u don't end up with a whole bunch of really unhappy customers. Long run, much better outcome. Other choice would be to make a normal, non proprietary version for guys that want to be able to reload the brass.

 

[Bob Wright]

From the instruction manual:
"WARNING: ONLY USE QUALITY MATCHGRADE FACTORY AMMUNITION. FAILURE TO USE THE CORRECT TYPE OF AMMUNITION MAY CAUSE OPERATION FAILURES, DAMAGE, INJURY, OR PROPERTY DAMAGE. NO STEEL CASED AMMO!"
Along with that the patent describes the chamber design which has helical/spiral grooves up to .001 depth per side that is designed to reduce the drag out forces during extraction, among other things. If you think of it as a shallow rifling, the brass is going to be embossed. The dies available will not be or will have a difficult time overcoming the embossed size of the brass.
Since it was "military" in its intended design, no one is picking up spent brass on the field. It's my estimation, it is scrap brass and incapable/near impossible of being resized for reloads.
And that is probably their angle. New manufactured factory match ammo only.
Edited add owners photo. This brass is embossed.

 

[Dean2]

From the instruction manual:
"WARNING: ONLY USE QUALITY MATCHGRADE FACTORY AMMUNITION. FAILURE TO USE THE CORRECT TYPE OF AMMUNITION MAY CAUSE OPERATION FAILURES, DAMAGE, INJURY, OR PROPERTY DAMAGE. NO STEEL CASED AMMO!"
Along with that the patent describes the chamber design which has helical/spiral grooves up to .001 depth per side that is designed to reduce the drag out forces during extraction, among other things. If you think of it as a shallow rifling, the brass is going to be embossed. The dies available will not be or will have a difficult time overcoming the embossed size of the brass.
Since it was "military" in its intended design, no one is picking up spent brass on the field. It's my estimation, it is scrap brass and incapable/near impossible of being resized for reloads.
And that is probably their angle. New manufactured factory match ammo only.

So tell me which Militaries in the world are using "Match Grade Factory Ammo" in combat situations. Theses guys are trying to blow and suck at the same time.

 

[ntsqd]

Maybe they just have delusions of being H&K? That 'fluted' chamber does sound remarkably familiar......