Does energy = lethality?

[Big Jake Duke]

I think you got great advice here. The 6.5 creedmore may not have the juice to deliver a devastating one shot kill at extended ranges on elk. That should be our goal - a quick clean passing from this life to the next for a big game animal.

We dont have to hunt, so when we do, and do it at extended ranges, the burden is on us to use the right cartridge/bullet combo and bring the skill to make it clean. Good luck

 

[FIGJAM]

Maybe I thought that because your responses were directly posted after my post?? So my bad. I take it that the heart pill is directed at me?? If it is why don't you take a viagra and go skrew yourself.

I think if you go back and look at the early posts that got you all fired up I was replying directly to another member. Having said that, I always enjoy some healthy debate, so glad you tagged in.

 

[Moose4Me]

This is funny as hell - I was waiting for this reaction from the 300wm fan club. For the record I don't own a 300 wm. I skipped it and went to a 300 wby and a 300rum.

I am saying that elk aren't that tough, definitely not as tough as you are making them out to be. Quit pretending that they are. The OP is clearly uncomfortable with more recoil than a 30-06, why pressure him into something he doesn't want or need? Do you feel like if somebody can't or doesn't want to deal with the recoil from a 300 mag they shouldn't hunt elk? What about women and children or men for that matter that are recoil sensitive? Elk are off the table for them? That is stupid...

The impact a cartridge has on a gut shot elk has more to do with bullet construction than the cartridge itself. A bullet that hits the guts and blows up will have a more devastating effect than a bonded or mono that passes straight through. Maybe you are so old you are stuck in the past and aren't up to speed in the advancement's they have made in bullet technology...I don't know you from Adam. Also, don't make the mistake of thinking because you are older than me you have killed or seen more elk killed than I have...

I have seen more elk lost or wounded from 300 and 338 mags than any other cartridge. The fact is most people can't handle the recoil. Trying to talk a guy into shooting more gun than he is comfortable with is a joke brother. Shame on you...I would rather hunt with somebody that can shoot a creed accurately out to 600-700 yards than somebody who is scared of his 300 WM...so yeah, you 300wm dudes can stick it if you think that is the minimum required for elk.

Hey we shot what we are comfortable with. I have no problem with the recoil of my 300WM. Elk, moose or bear I've never needed more than one clean shot to quickly drop an animal. Longest clean kill shot to date is 938 yds. I was chiming in on what has been a tried and true set up for me. I have spent considerable time over the years at the range often times shooting 100-150 rounds in a single session. I am proficient with my weapon/set up of choice. No reason to hate! We are fortunate to have the opportunities that we have to enjoy this sport. Open minds people.

 

[Bigfishonafly]

Boys boys boys. Can't we all just agree that the 300 is the minimum for elk and all get along.

 

[FIGJAM]

Boys boys boys. Can't we all just agree that the 300 is the minimum for elk and all get along.

I am sure the 7mm guys will have something to say about that too! Lol. In addition to my 300 rum and 300 wby I also have a 7mm RM and a 270 wsm. I haven't noticed a difference in the elk i have shot with any of them. Know your cartridge, pick the right bullet for the job, and pick the right distance for the conditions and your ability - in other words don't be stupid and make a good shot and elk will die. I love my 25-06 with 115 bergers on elk - it has been an elk killing machine. The one in my avatar was killed with my 270wsm shooting 145gr ELDX. It took a step and tumbled at 430 yards...my 300 rum with 215gr bergers wouldn't have performed any better.

 

[Bigfishonafly]

Lol can't the 7mm guys stick it too? Or is it only the 300 guys that have to do that?

 

[FIGJAM]

Hey we shot what we are comfortable with. I have no problem with the recoil of my 300WM. Elk, moose or bear I've never needed more than one clean shot to quickly drop an animal. Longest clean kill shot to date is 938 yds. I was chiming in on what has been a tried and true set up for me. I have spent considerable time over the years at the range often times shooting 100-150 rounds in a single session. I am proficient with my weapon/set up of choice. No reason to hate! We are fortunate to have the opportunities that we have to enjoy this sport. Open minds people.

I am not saying everybody should shoot smaller calibers, some guys put in the time and shoot very well with the mags...having said that I feel like the majority of boneheads I see during hunting season might take the time to throw a couple rounds down range to "check their zero" if they have time before opening day...a lot dont even do that much. They would be better off shooting a smaller caliber than the 300 or 338 they have.

 

[Rick Richard]

Hey, don't forget us 6.5 guys! I have total confidence in my SAUM out to 600 or so yards as long as I place it in the sweet spot.

 

[FIGJAM]

Lol can't the 7mm guys stick it too? Or is it only the 300 guys that have to do that?

I don't see why not! Lol The 7mm guys have a tougher argument that the 7mm should be a minimum since the difference between .277 and .284 is immaterial.

 

[Bigfishonafly]

I think if you go back and look at the early posts that got you all fired up I was replying directly to another member. Having said that, I always enjoy some healthy debate, so glad you tagged in.

Fig I went back and looked at all the earlier post that got tmmd all fired up. The way I read it tmmd mentioned his preference for 300's then you dumped on him with 300 lovers could stick it. (No one mentioned it before his post or between his post and yours) You then then started spewing people were putting the minimum elk cartidge at 300. I did not see anyone but you mention this. So just who were you referring to in your post? Is this some imaginary post that no one but you saw? Inquiring minds want to know. I kind of like health debate too. Do you find that personal attacks aid in healthy debate? Just curious ; )

 

[Jack R Tishue Jr]

I love to listen to that old feller. He's great, I am glad someone else thought it was a good idea to record his experiences,thoughts and ideas on ballistics ,hunting, and cartridges.

Isn't it interesting that folks talking about going hunting in Africa think you NEED a 375 H&H to shoot game, at 50 yards, and there are only like 20 animals in Africa bigger than a white tail deer, but some folks here think you should use, at best a whitetail deer round to shoot Elk and such at long range. I agree whole heartedly with you, and know Elmer and Jack would too. A 600 yard shot is a LONG ways out there. BTW , I don't agree with the 375 for African stuff either. Too much gun, a 308 or 06 is fine for there, and if you read the African hunting magazines, most people over there use that size round.

 

[Moose4Me]

I'd contact a couple of different bullet manufacturers and ask them about their bullets terminal performance at the ranges you are interested in shooting.

If anything they will give you minimal velocities or ft.lbf at POI for their bullet to perform optimally.

Internet is a great place to exchange ideas but for what you're looking to do I'd go straight to the designer.

Great advice. Hornady has a great app for all the bullets/loads and offers input for your environmental factors (altitude, barometric pressure, temp, wind speed.) In the field I use an app, Strelok Pro that links via bluetooth to my Kestral 2000 portable weather station. I would recommend the Strelok Pro app for any rifle, scope, bullet, load combination.

 

[Jack R Tishue Jr]

I was originally thinking .308 since the ammo is cheap and this will be my first foray into long range. Then I started looking at 6.5 Creedmoor due to less deflection from wind and the lower recoil.

If 6.5 Creedmoor or .308 aren't sufficient for long range elk, then I just won't hunt elk at long ranges. I really just wanted a good entry cartridge to learn with.

The lower recoil would mainly be nice so that my kids could shoot it when they are a little older.

I guess I have more research to do

Just get an 06. more energy and not much more recoil. The 308 with some bullets will actually go subsonic at 900 yds (I long range target shoot), and won't even hit the target frame. 06 might be "boring" because it does so much so well. But hunting not about shooting something with an iffy round, it's about taking the game right. As the gunsmith said, 500-600 yards IS long range. If you can't get close enough to shoot, then don't. LR and hunting don't belong in the same sentence.

 

[Moose4Me]

Fig I went back and looked at all the earlier post that got tmmd all fired up. The way I read it tmmd mentioned his preference for 300's then you dumped on him with 300 lovers could stick it. (No one mentioned it before his post or between his post and yours) You then then started spewing people were putting the minimum elk cartidge at 300. I did not see anyone but you mention this. So just who were you referring to in your post? Is this some imaginary post that no one but you saw? Inquiring minds want to know. I kind of like health debate too. Do you find that personal attacks aid in healthy debate? Just curious ; )

Thanks for the support. I never understood the angstist between preferences in calibers, loads, etc. I see it as we're all brothers enjoying a common sport. I am by no means a military sniper, but I'll sit side by side with anyone at the range or in the field with my 300WM. I'll out shoot 8 of 10 every day, regardless of their rifle selection or DTT out to 900 yrs. When it's close or I come up on the short end of the match, I love to learn. I'm confident with my abilities and MY preferred rifle selection. Isn't that what it is all about. Choose and embrace what you shoot.