Does energy = lethality?

[VLD Pilot]

22 Creedmoor is even faster !!!

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I like the idea of a 280ai as a good compromise rifle to get out to longer range on big game for the OP.

As to the argument about what cartridge can be used on elk at what distance... There is really not one right answer. There are so many factors/variables that change the answer. The answer that is derived from the pure math can be misleading for sure. I think as the caliber of the bullet gets smaller the impact vel needs to be higher for good terminal performance. The lager the caliber of the bullet the more grace you get when it comes to impact vel.

The variables in bullet performance on impact are ultimately important to determining effective range on game.

 

[FIGJAM]

Fig l let this go over night to see if it still ----ed me off this morning. Obviously it does. I have killed 31 elk. Seen well over a 100 killed. I've lived in elk county longer than you've been alive. So while I might not live in your state maybe you are the out of stater who shouldn't be listened too.

The only thing you said that makes any sense is no one should shoot a gun they can't handle. The rest of your drivel is total BS.

1. No one, except for you, (bulletproof was your word) ever said elk are bulletproof. They can be killed with a .22
2. Maybe your saying elk are not big tough animals?? If that is your position please state it so the world can see your brilliance.
3. Your experience and my experience on how well other people shoot magnums is not the same. Maybe the out of staters here are tougher than your part of the world? Or maybe we just get out and use our rifles more. Or maybe you need to hunt with someone who cares enough to be proficient with their firearms.
4. Your statement that shooting an elk in the guts with a 6.5 Creedmoor is the same as shooting one with a magnum is like saying it is the same getting ran over by a motorcycle or a simi truck. While your mouth is moving it makes no sense.
I've seen elk shot in the guts. While this is never a good thing, large bullets moving fast do more damage than small bullets moving slower. It is a thing called physics. You might want to look that up.

OP If you want to talk about experience go read what Jeff Brozovich says on the subject. He manages a large ranch and is involved in about 80 elk kills a year. His opinion mirrors mine. His direct quote when asked if the 6.5 prc is a good elk cartridge was you can chop a tree down with a claw hammer, but there are better tools for the job.

Fig you are doing OP a disservice by trying to convince the world that elk are not tough and chit don't happen while hunting. Maybe you should stick it!

This is funny as hell - I was waiting for this reaction from the 300wm fan club. For the record I don't own a 300 wm. I skipped it and went to a 300 wby and a 300rum.

I am saying that elk aren't that tough, definitely not as tough as you are making them out to be. Quit pretending that they are. The OP is clearly uncomfortable with more recoil than a 30-06, why pressure him into something he doesn't want or need? Do you feel like if somebody can't or doesn't want to deal with the recoil from a 300 mag they shouldn't hunt elk? What about women and children or men for that matter that are recoil sensitive? Elk are off the table for them? That is stupid...

The impact a cartridge has on a gut shot elk has more to do with bullet construction than the cartridge itself. A bullet that hits the guts and blows up will have a more devastating effect than a bonded or mono that passes straight through. Maybe you are so old you are stuck in the past and aren't up to speed in the advancement's they have made in bullet technology...I don't know you from Adam. Also, don't make the mistake of thinking because you are older than me you have killed or seen more elk killed than I have...

I have seen more elk lost or wounded from 300 and 338 mags than any other cartridge. The fact is most people can't handle the recoil. Trying to talk a guy into shooting more gun than he is comfortable with is a joke brother. Shame on you...I would rather hunt with somebody that can shoot a creed accurately out to 600-700 yards than somebody who is scared of his 300 WM...so yeah, you 300wm dudes can stick it if you think that is the minimum required for elk.

 

[Moose4Me]

I know it was'nt part of your original selection. The discussion is very personal. Don't forget about the 300WinMag. I has Les at Long Range Hunting build a custom 300WinMag topped with a Nightforce BEAST 5x-25x56. Hornady 200gr ELD-X in hunting environment (7,800 ft @ 40 degrees), 800 yds, +6.36 MRADS, Vel. 1,733, Energy 1,344. I have tested other reloads using the same bullet and have seen an 6-9% increase in muzzle velocity. Again, I realize so much of this is personal preference taking into account hunting environment you enjoy. Best thing is we are all out there enjoying our 2nd Amendment rights! My best to all...

 

[VLD Pilot]

Another two cents: At 800 yards either is capable of killing a target when punching holes in paper, since neither bullet had gone subsonic. Energy is irrelevant. As for shooting Elk - IMHO you need to do some research on long range hunting. 300 to "maybe" 400 yards is the longest range recommended for hunting. Long range: from a bench or mat, plenty of time to get the crosshairs on target, manipulate turrets if needed, nice breath and trigger control etc. Hunting: excited, rapid heartbeat and breathing, no time to set position other than what you are in, maybe a tree for steadying, lousy breath control no time to play with turrets, etc. On the other hand, with the rifle sighted at say 200 yards, you can practice using hold-overs to go out further to the 300-400 yard mark, and get off that quick, ACCURATE KILLING shot.

BS... All those are your opinions not facts. We all have opinions. Facts are what hunters produce. I've produced dozens of big game including elk kills at well beyond 400 yards. No excitement, no out if breath, no rapid heart beat and plenty of time to set up a bipod, relax, glass for the opportunity and take time waiting for the ideal shot position. You forgot the most important factors...environmental conditions ( Wind, temperature, Pressure, Elevation). That plays a bigger role than readiness. Yes...we long range hunters have that figured out too. I'm thinking that you must figure most long range shooters/ hunters here are a bunch of Jethro Bodine's with lever guns. Also that we are very unethical when it comes to harvesting big game animals. I've never considered taking a less than perfect( IMO) shot at an animal even at 100 yards let's alone 800. Everyone's skill set is very different from another. Make no assumptions regarding that distinction. Just as stated above with experience killing dozens of elk knowing which cartridge works best. Experience means everything. Theory doesn't. Yes, there are many better options for elk than a 6.5 Creedmoor. In the experienced hands of a proficient shooter/long range hunter, the 6.5 Creedmoor will kill and elk just as dead as a 300/338 with one bullet hit properly. That cannot be disputed.

 

[FIGJAM]

BS

Agreed.

 

[tbrice23]

This is funny as hell - I was waiting for this reaction from the 300wm fan club. For the record I don't own a 300 wm. I skipped it and went to a 300 wby and a 300rum.

I am saying that elk aren't that tough, definitely not as tough as you are making them out to be. Quit pretending that they are. The OP is clearly uncomfortable with more recoil than a 30-06, why pressure him into something he doesn't want or need? Do you feel like if somebody can't or doesn't want to deal with the recoil from a 300 mag they shouldn't hunt elk? What about women and children or men for that matter that are recoil sensitive? Elk are off the table for them? That is stupid...

The impact a cartridge has on a gut shot elk has more to do with bullet construction than the cartridge itself. A bullet that hits the guts and blows up will have a more devastating effect than a bonded or mono that passes straight through. Maybe you are so old you are stuck in the past and aren't up to speed in the advancement's they have made in bullet technology...I don't know you from Adam. Also, don't make the mistake of thinking because you are older than me you have killed or seen more elk killed than I have...

I have seen more elk lost or wounded from 300 and 338 mags than any other cartridge. The fact is most people can't handle the recoil. Trying to talk a guy into shooting more gun than he is comfortable with is a joke brother. Shame on you...I would rather hunt with somebody that can shoot a creed accurately out to 600-700 yards than somebody who is scared of his 300 WM...so yeah, you 300wm dudes can stick it if you think that is the minimum required for elk.

Muzzle brakes are made for a reason.

 

[FIGJAM]

Muzzle brakes are made for a reason.

Not everybody likes to hunt with brakes - I am one of those. I avoid hunting with people who use them...its personal preference. To each their own when it comes to brakes. Also, if you forget or choose not to use hearing protection when hunting with them, the additional noise from a brake can cause people to flinch just as much as recoil.

Plus, the last think I want is my 11 yr old son having his ears plugged while he is getting ready to pull the trigger so we can't communicate - what happens if a cow walks behind his bull at the last second...I like to be able to communicate with the people I hunt with regardless of whether or not I am the shooter or the spotter...

 

[Bigfishonafly]

The creedmoor with 147gr eldms will retain 1000 ftlbs out to about 1000 yards depending on your elevation.

At 4000 feet you would need to start a 147 gr 6.5 at 2900 fps. to achieve 1000 ft lbs at 1000 yards. Just how long of a barrel you going to use to elk hunt? My creedmore will not come anywhere close to this velocity without fear of losing an eye.

Lol maybe those born and raised in elk country have faster shooting rifles than those of us who were born and raised in elk country?

 

[tbrice23]

Not everybody likes to hunt with brakes - I am one of those. I avoid hunting with people who use them...its personal preference. To each their own when it comes to brakes. Also, if you forget or choose not to use hearing protection when hunting with them, the additional noise from a brake can cause people to flinch just as much as recoil.

Plus, the last think I want is my 11 yr old son having his ears plugged while he is getting ready to pull the trigger so we can't communicate - what happens if a cow walks behind his bull at the last second...I like to be able to communicate with the people I hunt with regardless of whether or not I am the shooter or the spotter...

They make ear plugs and ear muffs for a reason.

 

[FIGJAM]

At 4000 feet you would need to start a 147 gr 6.5 at 2900 fps. to achieve 1000 ft lbs at 1000 yards. Just how long of a barrel you going to use to elk hunt? My creedmore will not come anywhere close to this velocity without fear of losing an eye.

Lol maybe those born and raised in elk country have faster shooting rifles than those of us who were born and raised in elk country?

Or maybe we just hunt at higher elevations? I hunt between 9000 and 11000 ft in Idaho...run the ballistics with those numbers.

 

[FIGJAM]

They make ear plugs and ear muffs for a reason.

Lots of people don't like to hunt with plugs or muffs - see my previous post. If you are hunting solo, I always use plugs. If I am hunting with others, I never do...

 

[VLD Pilot]

Muzzle brakes are made for a reason.

Suppressors also. Same deal. Many good options

 

[VLD Pilot]

Lots of people don't like to hunt with plugs or muffs - see my previous post. If you are hunting solo, I always use plugs. If I am hunting with others, I never do...

Brakes require them for sure. Without, not so much. Wish I'd have used them years earlier, I'd have good hearing.