Great information that I really appreciate. I shot a mule deer a couple days ago with a 7 mag using 180 eldm at 304 yds, the bullet clipped the onside shoulder made a golf ball sized entrance and 3 exit wounds in the offside ribcage about the size of a dime...I don't know if that's ideal performance but it sure made for a fast kill
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Bullet construction
- Thread starter Petey308
- Start date
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THANKS Great work
That is a hard question to answer lol. There's a lot of variables that go into it. What animal you're hunting, what cartridge you're using, typical muzzle velocities, etc factor in. I know I personally prefer heavy for caliber softer/frangible type bullets. The reason why heavy for caliber is so they start with a high amount of sectional density. Being soft, they're obviously going to start expanding quite rapidly upon impact, but have the sectional density (essentially mass) to still hold together and balance well with expansion AND penetration. That's what prefer. If you're shooting something though that you can easily always ensure your impact velocity will be above 1800fps, I'd recommend the Long Range Accubonds. They're bonded and the lead holds together well and stays in relatively large pieces. They're softer than the regular Accubonds, so actually perform a bit better, and they have higher BCs, which is always nice.
I know lots of places worldwide are starting to push for lead free. It's unfortunate, really. I think the ones in charge of making the laws/rules are simply ignorant to what's really going on, they just know lead is poisonous, in general, especially to certain bird species that eat on the carcasses, but they don't fully understand the whole aspects of hunting, terminal ballistics, and what they're really doing by forcing hunters to go lead free.
In my research and experience, you just cannot get current varieties of solid copper bullets to perform as well terminally as a well constructed lead core bullet- at least I haven't seen it yet. Yes, there are definitely solid copper bullets out there that do perform well, especially under proper utilization and within their specific limitations. That's not what I'm saying though. I'm saying NOT AS WELL, just to clarify lol, and of course it depends on which lead core bullet we're talking about. That's not a blanket statement I'm making.
As far as the whole reasoning to go lead free due to saving other wildlife and the preposterous claim that you're poisoning yourself eating the meat... well, I think I'm pretty safe in saying that most hunters do a great job of properly disposing of lead riddled offal, cutting away bloodshot meat, rinsing their meat well before packaging and consuming, and in reality, adults have a protective membrane that protects them from lead toxins. You'd have to consume obvious amounts of lead to give you an issue, like seeing it and feeling it as you eat it. You're much more likely to develop lead poisoning from shooting indoors with lead styphnate primers and breathing the the dust/fumes than you are by consuming any minute particles in meat. There have been multiple studies to prove that.
Children, whose skull hasn't fully fused yet, lack the membrane that protects them from the lead toxins, and they're more susceptible if they consume it, but it would still need to be in larger quantities than you typically get in any well trimmed and rinsed meat taken using lead core bullets. I know this reason here is why I started using copper bullets back when I did. I've since went back to lead core though.
The last point, and the one I talk about the most when discussing solid copper bullets, is the overall inferior terminal performance you get with them vs a well-constructed lead core bullet. They're worried about hunters shooting an animal with a lead bullet and then not recovering the animal and then the carcass gets consumed by birds or other animals and they end up poisoning themselves as a result. Well, if EVERY hunter is forced to use solid copper bullets, I feel quite confident that the numbers of unrecovered game will go up. So then you really do have a problem. You have people maiming animals, and you likely will have more animals killed overall because those that shoot an animal and don't recover it will likely shoot another or another until they finally do recover one lol. It happens where I live now even with good bullets lol. Guys have one buck tag and they don't use it until they actually have an animal to put it on.
If it does happen though, that's when I'd just want everyone using them to understand how they behave differently than the traditional lead core bullet and that their limits are different. You really need to ensure shot placement is on point and that impact velocity is ideally above 2200fps when ever possible. I know a lot of guys here do understand that and are using solids within their limitations. If that can get ingrained into everyone, and they hunt accordingly, results wouldn't be too bad. I'm confident that if that's all we could hunt with, there'd be much more research and development to get better terminal performance as well. There'd definitely be a higher demand for it.
I'm not sure how many lead core bullets have alloy cores vs more of a pure lead. I know the Tipped GameKings are a harder alloy than all other Sierra cores. Any electrically/chemically bonded core will hold together more too. All the AMAX and ELD variety bullets use soft lead and are not actually bonded. Most manufacturers use gilding copper for their jackets, which is typically 95% copper and 5% zinc. So how the jacket behaves terminally is more based on its thickness and other things like interlock/bonding rings, cannelures, etc.
Thinner jackets without any form of bonding will result in more expansion and a lower minimum impact resistance than thicker jacketed bullets.
Does that help? I could maybe elaborate further if needed.
That's a tougher constructed bullet and with that particular shot placement, the amount of impact resistance was low, so not sufficient for adequate expansion. A lighter version with less sectional density would have performed better under the same exact shot, or the same weight bullet but a softer construction, like a TMK.
Fast kills are always ideal to me, but it sounds like perhaps it hit bone just perfectly to divert the bullet as it was expanding, resulting in that particular result. That's what I love about those kind of bullets, they almost always still result in a fast kill even when shot placement turned out not so ideal. They're very forgiving like that. A little meat wasted is better than losing it all from losing the animal
. Everyone's opinion and view on that I'd different though.X10!!!
Ok guys, I posted my write-up more regarding solid copper bullets 
. Take it easy on me lol.
. Take it easy on me lol.
dougduey
Well-Known Member
Great write up and lots of useful information.
Nathan Foster has done a bunch of research like this, but you've gone into more detail. Thanks for all the hard work and keep it coming.
Oh yes, Nathan Foster has been what I'd consider a mentor of mine when I really got into all this. I can only dream of having all his actual knowledge and experience lol.
Thanks for the reply . Ill remember that for next year when we go out hunting again . Would a Nosler 150g partition bullet be a better choice as i have these at hand , the TMK seem really difficult to find at the moment .
The partition is another tougher constructed bullet. It has a thinner jacketed area of the ogive that is it's own compartment, essentially, separated from the rest of the base. Once the ogive area is gone, you're typically left with just the base to pencil through. Lighter is typically better for such a bullet so that it balances better as far as expansion versus penetration. If it's all you have, it can work, just be picky with your shot placement if you can. If impacting above 2600fps, I'd say avoid shoulders, if impacting below that, especially below 2400fps, but above 1800fps, you should be able to place it in any good spot and be ok. If you're closer to that 1800fps mark, aim for the shoulder to increase resistance upon impact and to ensure adequate expansion.
judgebill
Well-Known Member
Have to add my thanks for the time you put in and the way you presented the information. I would add a comment that may not be that well received. I've been hunting for 70 years now, have never killed an animal farther than 300 yards (with one exception) and in general terms, using 7mm RM and 300 Wby and 375 H & H mags, they pretty much fell where they were shot. Good velocity at those ranges, fortunately good shot placement and bullet performance always adequate. I suspect (here comes "opinion", not researched or experiential fact) that as ranges grow, bullet performance decreases along with precision of shot placement. Just sayin'.
