Bullet Construction vs Lethality

[ButterBean]

Considering 90% of your existence on this forum so far has been to poke at other members in this thread while providing nothing of substance to the community at large I'm not really sure you have much of a leg to stand on.

So far the only thing you've really said here is that you're stuck using monos in CA and have a fascination with disliking the cult of hammer bullets. So did you create an account to actually provide anything of substance to the members here or did you just join because you don't like hammer bullets and wanted to tell everyone?

Yep it don't take Sooob and the gang to put it all together

 

[Petey308]

 

[xsn10s]

Rinse and repeat is right, y'all are so predictable it ain't even funny, Dude's got 28 posts and your patting him on the back like you're best buds, it don't take a white coat and a slide rule to figure that out

So the 124 HH posted about it being an 800 yard bullet. What's the cartridge and load data for this round? What ballistics calculator or app do you use? Heck you midwest guys struggle to have a range 600 yards and beyond so which range do you use?

 

[VinceMule]

There are gunsmiths that specialize in building long-range rifles for benchrest, F Class, and Hunting. They get a lot of feedback from their customers. These guys get tremendous real-world, actual field experience feedback from various customers.

I would defer to the gunsmith's knowledge first and foremost which puts a lot of this conjecture into a moot point.

I think that Butter Bean has done a fair amount of gun-building, for a start!

 

[ButterBean]

So the 124 HH posted about it being an 800 yard bullet. What's the cartridge and load data for this round? What ballistics calculator or app do you use? Heck you midwest guys struggle to have a range 600 yards and beyond so which range do you use?

300 RUM
124g HH
H4350@ 97.5g
CCI 250
Seated to the last PDR groove
1/8th turn LEE FCD
StrelokPro
And I can shoot up to a mile off of my front porch
I don't belong to a range,

 

[Northkill]

I'm starting this thread to discuss issues regarding the materials, design and construction of rifle hunting bullets in so far as it relates to lethality, which, for the purposes of the thread, will be defined as the ability of the bullet to penetrate deeply at any impact angle or distance up to 1000 yds to reach vital organs and effect a one shot kill rapidly. Factors to consider are BC, ductility of bullet material, caliber, muzzle velocity, accuracy (<1MOA), weight retention, type of expansion ( petal vs mushrooming vs explosive vs petal shedding).

I appreciate your dedication and investment as I do anyone who contributes something to the hunting and shooting tradition. Maybe another factor to mix in with this would be terminal performance at the parameters of impact velocity. In other words, what happens with a particular bullet terminally at the low-end as well as at the high-end of its particular rated impact velocity range. Can we get a bullet to do the same thing from low to high? I'm no purist...I use your product. I've tested it beyond its design parameters so have some real-world experience. The one advantage that I can see with petal-shedding designs is they tend to do the same thing over a wide range of velocities if designed correctly. The mushroom-petaling design tends to have a velocity ceiling, but also very narrow petaling on the low-velocity threshhold impacts. Your tips help to mitigate this on the low-end, but it's hard to completely overcome this. This is not intended as criticism, rather giving you a chance to speak into this. The upside is that penetration is strong at long range as a result of the low-expansion. Personally, I haven't yet had a chance to connect with game past 400 yd with the one rifle that is running your product. Need to find a place to hunt that gives more range opportunities.

 

[FEENIX]

NO!

 

[Northkill]

NO!

Care to add anything productive to the discussion?

This is getting completely ridiculous lol

It's up to you.

 

[340 in Va]

Considering 90% of your existence on this forum so far has been to poke at other members in this thread while providing nothing of substance to the community at large I'm not really sure you have much of a leg to stand on.

So far the only thing you've really said here is that you're stuck using monos in CA and have a fascination with disliking the cult of hammer bullets. So did you create an account to actually provide anything of substance to the members here or did you just join because you don't like hammer bullets and wanted to tell everyone?

I agree, after reading all 57 pages, I didn't gain much. Seems to be some long-range shooters (not hunters). I wander how many shooting 1000 yd. plus and don't see the animal go down or some sign of a hit ever go check. After 63 years of hunting for me the closer the better.

 

[BEEMAN]

I appreciate your dedication and investment as I do anyone who contributes something to the hunting and shooting tradition. Maybe another factor to mix in with this would be terminal performance at the parameters of impact velocity. In other words, what happens with a particular bullet terminally at the low-end as well as at the high-end of its particular rated impact velocity range. Can we get a bullet to do the same thing from low to high? I'm no purist...I use your product. I've tested it beyond its design parameters so have some real-world experience. The one advantage that I can see with petal-shedding designs is they tend to do the same thing over a wide range of velocities if designed correctly. The mushroom-petaling design tends to have a velocity ceiling, but also very narrow petaling on the low-velocity threshhold impacts. Your tips help to mitigate this on the low-end, but it's hard to completely overcome this. This is not intended as criticism, rather giving you a chance to speak into this. The upside is that penetration is strong at long range as a result of the low-expansion. Personally, I haven't yet had a chance to connect with game past 400 yd with the one rifle that is running your product. Need to find a place to hunt that gives more range opportunities.

I wish you luck on getting an answer. I basically asked that same question WAY BACK on page 2!! I'd still like to know the OP answer and what testing was done to decide on a mushrooming bullet over one that sheds the nose petals.

 

[A/1-61]

Your post defines the "perfect" bullet to a tee - the one that every bullet manufacturer has been trying to invent forever. When you write "any impact angle ... up to 1000 yds" and expect penetration as well as adequate expansion, you are in a performance realm not yet realized by any bullet 100% of the time - at least none of which I am aware. BUT, what you also seem to be implying is that:
1. The hunter knows the anatomy of their game and how the angle of the animal effects the aiming point and ...
2. That the hunter can hit where he or she aims.
And therein lies the answer to your question. Most popular premium bullets these days, although NOT perfect, will still kill game with reasonable lethality if the hunter does his/her part. But too many hunters don't fulfill those two criteria that I just mentioned ... then they blame their bullet.
I was a taxidermist for many years and saw hundreds of dead game animals, including some that were cleanly killed with a relatively small caliber, well-placed bullet (the largest bull elk I ever mounted dropped in its tracks after being shot through the heart with a Barnes .243 caliber bullet), and those that had been riddled with poorly placed large calibers (like, a smallish black bear that took five around-the-edges shots to succumb to a .300 Win.). The bullet can only be as "perfect" as the person who pulls the trigger. I will now leave the healthy discussion about "favorite" bullets for the rest of you guys.

The ethical long range hunter, even though he knows he can hit an animal that is at a bad angle--or any other less than optimal condition--will pass up that shot. When you factor this out of the equation, I dare say any premium bullet's performance increases exponentially.

 

[Northkill]

I wish you luck on getting an answer. I basically asked that same question WAY BACK on page 2!! I'd still like to know the OP answer and what testing was done to decide on a mushrooming bullet over one that sheds the nose petals.

I'm sorry. I hadn't seen your question. Didn't mean to be redundant. I've been playing with all the main mono products except have never tried the CEB. The McGuire design is the mushroom model but has some differences vs the Badlands. Apex are designed to shed similar to the Hammers. The raw product composition plays into how each individual design functions in various terminal scenarios. I'll run any of them if its what my rifle likes. They are all trying to perfect their product. I support them all in that.

 

[Northkill]

The ethical long range hunter, even though he knows he can hit an animal that is at a bad angle--or any other less than optimal condition--will pass up that shot. When you factor this out of the equation, I dare say any premium bullet's performance increases exponentially.

You'll have to be careful with that "ethical" word.

 

[BEEMAN]

I'm sorry. I hadn't seen your question. Didn't mean to be redundant. I've been playing with all the main mono products except have never tried the CEB. The McGuire design is the mushroom model but has some differences vs the Badlands. Apex are designed to shed similar to the Hammers. The raw product composition plays into how each individual design functions in various terminal scenarios. I'll run any of them if its what my rifle likes. They are all trying to perfect their product. I support them all in that.

No problem. I'm glad you asked the question. I'd still like the hear the answer.