Bullet Construction vs Lethality

Dumb guy here and after pages 1-14 (with mild derailments) I appreciate the education. Stupid question but here goes. How is it that we are still mainly using lead and copper for projectiles? Where is the research on other alloys? If a titanium receiver is stronger then wouldn't it stand to reason there are stronger alloys than lead and copper? I know someone mentioned depleted uranium from a tank or anti aircraft gun, but seriously, 300 plus years of shoulder fired projectiles and we are still at lead, copper or lead and copper?

(Is this where I say asking for a friend?)
 
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Ive shot game with all kinds of calibers and bullets.Ive also put broad heads threw bull elk shoulder blades, bears same and spines also.Most of my life I packed a 340 wby and shot elk with 225 horned spire.I shot the length of elk and out front shoulder with bow and 225 partition. I started hunting in 2010 with 338 NM and 300 otm. I tested bullet on elk leg bones, knuckle and blew the whole works threw 1/2 OSB at rangeland self destructed the OSB and leg bone.I walked up on 6x and shot at 45 yrds,blood trail was like double lung archery shot. Ive put another one threw a bull moose at 45 yrds,three steps.I have exited all game I shot.Double shoulder on muley 700+ mush.I stone them in there tracks with most shots, in 2 rifles, with friend using also and my son.High BC,lots of energy.If I every get lucky and brown bear hunt it will be a different bullet,but I walk 100's of mile in grizzly country with a 300 otm in the pipe and it will level a grizz.I have some 240 Super dozier and I put one threw a 6x,Ill try these some more.I would like a mono for my 6.5 but the ELDM's are shooting tight, and that's just a varmint or deer rifle for me.Im a ridge runner and I pack enough rifle for the job
 
Dumb guy here and after pages 1-14 (with mild derailments) I appreciate the education. Stupid question but here goes. How is it that we are still mainly using lead and copper for projectiles? Where is the research on other alloys? If a titanium receiver is stronger then wouldn't it stand to reason there are stronger alloys than lead and copper? I know someone mentioned depleted uranium from a tank or anti aircraft gun, but seriously, 300 plus years of shoulder fired projectiles and we are still at lead, copper or lead and copper?

(Is this where I say asking for a friend?)
I would think you wanna stay softer then the barrel by a good amount.
 
Bryan Litz shook up the bullet manufacturer's world, when he measured rates of bullet velocity decay, and provided true bullet BC values for bullets manufactured and sold by most of the major bullet manufacturers. The bullet manufacturer's dirty gig was finally up.

Forevermore and forever after.
The Hammer cult and the owners of hammer told Brian Litz he didn't know what he was talking about when he exposed Hammers inflated BC's.
 
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Here's the Granddaddy of all bullet failures I've heard of to date. A 300gr .338 OTM Burger failed to penetrate the shoulder of a doe antelope. I would doubt the story... except I talked with Ray enough to respect his hunting experiences. He had hunted alot. Africa. Alaska. I haven't heard from Ray for years now. Hope he's OK and still hunting. It doesn't look like he's posted on this Forum since 2018. Last contact I had with him, Ray led me to believe his preferred hunting bullet for his 338 Lapua Improved rifles was the 300gr Sierra Match King.

Bullets sometimes misbehave, like teenagers. Here's a copy and paste from Ray's 2015 Post:

"Well, I have never shared this publicly before tonight. I'm the guy that shot a doe Antelope and the bullet never entered the vitals that I could see. Before I explain I need to back up a little.

When Berger came out with the 300g Berger I bought 250 of them. Shortly after we heard about the slump nose problem, so I did not shoot them. They are still in my cabinet as a matter of fact. A little while later they came out with the OTM's and I purchased 250. Don't remember what year that was?

In 2014 I used them exclusively that year. The Doe (antelope) was 800+yards out. Wind was full value 8-10mph. When I shot the doe went straight down. My 12 year-old grandson and I drove my utv up to what we thought was dead animal. When I pulled up next to it she picked up her head. When I got out to finish it, she tried to get up and run but could not. She actually made it 1/2 way into my Ranger then fell out. I could not believe what I was seeing and all this in front of my grandson!

When I gutted it, I was looking for damage to the vitals and could not find any damage at all! The bullet hit her square in the shoulder. Yea, yea I know! I was aiming for crease but was off about 3" hitting shoulder squarely. When we skinned it, looked like bomb went off on entrance side. It was blood shot badly all the way up to head. Don't think we saved any meat from that front quarter. Opposite side was perfectly fine?


If you wanna read Ray's entire Post, here's a link to the Thread. See Post #195.

 
In this world of extremes why not get a harder barrel?
Edit: Or tungsten tip, tungsten core, to add penetration?
Barrel can't be harder than the tooling used to cut the grooves, or the button used to swage the grooves down the bore.

That, and I don't want my barrels to cost more than the SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket engine.
 
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Barrel can't be harder than the tooling used to cut the grooves, or the button used to swage the grooves down the bore.

That, and I don't want my barrels to cost more than the Space-X Dragon 9 rocket engine.
I don't disagree but I don't recall cost being in the OP's question. Tungsten tip shouldn't touch the barrel, same with core. Deployable fins could stabilize a tungsten sabot thru a smooth bore.

"Factors to consider are BC, ductility of bullet material, caliber, muzzle velocity, accuracy (<1MOA), weight retention, type of expansion ( petal vs mushrooming vs explosive vs petal shedding)."
I'd love any of the bullet makers to comment on if they are trying new alloys or tungsten cause you know Roy W would have tried to sling it at 6000fps if he had todays tech…
Thank you for indulging my friend.
 
Forgot to add, isn't tungsten shot TSS the reason we can long range bird hunt now? I realize it's $5 a shell but dudes pay it all day long to drop a beard or two.
 
Here's the Granddaddy of all bullet failures I've heard of to date. A 300gr .338 OTM Burger failed to penetrate the shoulder of a doe antelope. I would doubt the story... except I talked with Ray enough to respect his hunting experiences. He had hunted alot. Africa. Alaska. I haven't heard from Ray for years now. Hope he's OK and still hunting. It doesn't look like he's posted on this Forum since 2018. Last contact I had with him, Ray led me to believe his preferred hunting bullet for his 338 Lapua Improved rifles was the 300gr Sierra Match King.

Bullets sometimes misbehave, like teenagers. Here's a copy and paste from Ray's 2015 Post:

"Well, I have never shared this publicly before tonight. I'm the guy that shot a doe Antelope and the bullet never entered the vitals that I could see. Before I explain I need to back up a little.

When Berger came out with the 300g Berger I bought 250 of them. Shortly after we heard about the slump nose problem, so I did not shoot them. They are still in my cabinet as a matter of fact. A little while later they came out with the OTM's and I purchased 250. Don't remember what year that was?

In 2014 I used them exclusively that year. The Doe (antelope) was 800+yards out. Wind was full value 8-10mph. When I shot the doe went straight down. My 12 year-old grandson and I drove my utv up to what we thought was dead animal. When I pulled up next to it she picked up her head. When I got out to finish it, she tried to get up and run but could not. She actually made it 1/2 way into my Ranger then fell out. I could not believe what I was seeing and all this in front of my grandson!

When I gutted it, I was looking for damage to the vitals and could not find any damage at all! The bullet hit her square in the shoulder. Yea, yea I know! I was aiming for crease but was off about 3" hitting shoulder squarely. When we skinned it, looked like bomb went off on entrance side. It was blood shot badly all the way up to head. Don't think we saved any meat from that front quarter. Opposite side was perfectly fine?


If you wanna read Ray's entire Post, here's a link to the Thread. See Post #195.

So if vitals were fine, did it drop and bleed out from just the shoulder wound? 🤔

*Edit to add: Went and read the rest of his post. He found several bullets with clogged openings. I'll bet it penciled through and he didn't notice the minimal wounding to vitals and the likely small exit.

Impact velocity at 800+ yards for that bullet and cartridge would have been in the 1800-1900fps range, and not a lot of resistance from antelope.

That's what makes the most sense to me anyway.
 
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I shoot tungsten shot. Good stuff.

We could try to remove cost from the equation.

But on planet earth, about the only places cost doesn't affect the design and manufacture of products produced for commercial sale is NASA, and the Department of Defense.

If cost is beyond reach of the majority of the targeted customers, it doesn't get manufactured.
 
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