JE I think you have some good points. I FL size everything because the one time I started just neck sizing I started running into problems like Alex explained. That being said how many of us can truly shoot the difference, most of us are just hunters and I for one am not gonna neck size for a hunting round. BR shooters are always pushing the envelope they have to to stay on top. I think FL dies Whiddens etc. Have made FL dies alot better than they were just a few years ago. Anyway just my thoughts.
Brass Separation Above Belt
- Thread starter curtiscd
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Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
Absolutely no offense taken. I see a lot of misconceptions about different shooting disciplines. Its almost all I deal in, these are the best guys out there. Bend over backwards to help. If any of them were caught lying about what they do to steer someone wrong, I promise they wouldnt fit in well. Same with this debate. I personally dont care if a guys wants to neck size so long as he knows the facts. When I read that full length sizing harms brass life and/or accuracy I have to butt in because thats flat wrong. Fact is the smallest groups ever shot by man are being shot with full length sized cases and when done right, you will wear out a barrel with 100 cases. All of these full length sizing misconceptions are very old school thinking. Its just not that way anymore. I do agree that if you buy a lee full length die and set it up per the directions you will be over working cases, but luckily we are smarter now and know how to make sure we are full length sizing correctly.
I got a headache trying to keep up with all the different positions by the sites "Titans" on the issue...I mean that respectfully because you guys make this site one of the greatest gun site on the web.
But I have a "semi-custom" 98 mauser that shoots bug holes, but I don't shoot it very often because it eats brass. I had the smith set barrel back trying to "get the chamber right" and now the caliber and my name are upside down! Never was "right!"
After two reloads the brass will start to separate just above the shoulder. Had two case heads pull off leaving the body of the case in the chamber.
Any way I have two 7mm mags and use the same brass/dies/bullets and in my Weatherby...the brass last forever! My mothers Mark X 7mm mag also never had a problem with brass...all three while using the same die set?????????????
Of course I don't have the instructions for the dies any more, but it seems they were set up fine for two rifles...do I need a new set of dies for the newest rifle?
But I have a "semi-custom" 98 mauser that shoots bug holes, but I don't shoot it very often because it eats brass. I had the smith set barrel back trying to "get the chamber right" and now the caliber and my name are upside down! Never was "right!"
After two reloads the brass will start to separate just above the shoulder. Had two case heads pull off leaving the body of the case in the chamber.
Any way I have two 7mm mags and use the same brass/dies/bullets and in my Weatherby...the brass last forever! My mothers Mark X 7mm mag also never had a problem with brass...all three while using the same die set?????????????
Of course I don't have the instructions for the dies any more, but it seems they were set up fine for two rifles...do I need a new set of dies for the newest rifle?
CatShooter
Well-Known Member
The solution is easy peasy.
Lightly oil the case with a light oil (Rem oil, or G-96), and fire the cartridges.
Then neck size and shoot again.
If... the cases get difficult to close the bolt on, use a FL die to adjust the FL die.
Screw it down a tiny bit at a time, maybe 1 mm of a turn at a time - each time, try the case by chambering it - when it gets OK to chamber - but still has some resistance to bolt closure, lock the die and size the cases - continue neck sizing until you need to FL size, and then go back to neck sizing again... I get 20+ reloads from belted cases in 300WM and 264WMs... in fact I have never lost a case.
Cat,
I also load for 300wm and 264wm plus 300wsm doing the normal FL size adjustment, let the shell holder "bump" the die. Thats the way the 7mm mag die is set up...that brass life is very long in 2 other rifles, but not this one!?!?!?!?
That just doesn't make since to me...maybe I'm just not smart enough to get it...5 rifles in 4 shouldered mag calibers do fine...one rifle doesn't
I also load for 300wm and 264wm plus 300wsm doing the normal FL size adjustment, let the shell holder "bump" the die. Thats the way the 7mm mag die is set up...that brass life is very long in 2 other rifles, but not this one!?!?!?!?
That just doesn't make since to me...maybe I'm just not smart enough to get it...5 rifles in 4 shouldered mag calibers do fine...one rifle doesn't
Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
What kind of measurement from the base to the shoulder datum (headspace) are you getting on fired cases from those 3 rifles? What are those measurements after you size the cases?
To be honest I don't own all that fancy stuff. But it looks like I will have to have a set of dies dedicated to the one rifle...that still doesn't seem right.
I just recently got into precision shooting. I just recently bought the tool to clean up the flash hole. I was in shock how much trash is in Federal brass!
The VZ-24 BRNO action 7mm RM was built in the late 90's and I have not shot it over 10 years.
I just recently got into precision shooting. I just recently bought the tool to clean up the flash hole. I was in shock how much trash is in Federal brass!
The VZ-24 BRNO action 7mm RM was built in the late 90's and I have not shot it over 10 years.
Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
A set of headspace comparators from Hornady will answer all your questions. I think most case life issues can be resolved by a set of these. Most likely your one rifle has a deeper chamber and those cases are being over sized.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...headspace-gauge-5-bushing-set-with-comparator
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...headspace-gauge-5-bushing-set-with-comparator
I seen a link earlier about this tool. I do plan to get one. So I will be able to take the measurements.
This is the second time I've been told to not worry about it and just neck the brass, but being hard headed I just can't help but think something else is wrong. That neck sizing was just a band aid to hide the real problem.
This is the second time I've been told to not worry about it and just neck the brass, but being hard headed I just can't help but think something else is wrong. That neck sizing was just a band aid to hide the real problem.
Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
Neck size if you want to. But at least know what your problem was.
Thanks a ton Alex. I'm getting the guage set. And I guess at some point buy another set of 7mag dies so I can set them for this one rifle. My mother's 7mag has not been shot in forever and my Weatherby longer that hers.
So I'm not really in a rush to get the 7mag up and running...but I see the need for the guages with my other calibers. I hate short brass life...reason the 7mag has been in the safe so long.
Next build is a 6.5x284 and I want the brass to last...getting a package deal next week with dies, Laupa brass with a 26" varmint barrel...so like I said...brass life will be important.
So I'm not really in a rush to get the 7mag up and running...but I see the need for the guages with my other calibers. I hate short brass life...reason the 7mag has been in the safe so long.
Next build is a 6.5x284 and I want the brass to last...getting a package deal next week with dies, Laupa brass with a 26" varmint barrel...so like I said...brass life will be important.
Axl
Well-Known Member
So if you convince everyone at once there will be no buyers for all those neck dies that flood the market! I was happy to unload all of mine a few years ago.
The light came on while loading for a T/C Encore- unique because i could set the head space on the gun to fit my resize die and then use my actual chamber to measure how much the shoulder was being moved. I then bought the proper tools to measure brass for my bolt guns. Then replaced all of my neck dies with FL dies.
CatShooter
Well-Known Member
Don't let the FL die hit the shell holder. When you have fired the oiled case for the first time, then move the die down slowly by trial and error.
Your die is shorter than your chamber, so it is pushing the shoulder down further than you want... the proper setting will have the die off the shell holder.
You don't need $100+ worth of tools - setting a FL die is not rocket science.
People make sound like you need to be an engineer to load a belted case - it ain't all that hard.
