Berger HUNTING Bullets

[Rick Richard]

Hybrid

 

[Timeout]

Here is three bullets I took a picture of today after I noticed the lead tip bullet. This is the third one I found in 500 box. The left of the three is a closed tip. Center a lead tip exposed and right, is what I call a ideal killing tip one. Nice hole and clean open tip. So out of these three bullets could I expect the same kills?

I shoot quite a few Bergers in a year and I will say Bergers are the most quality contolled bullets that I load. Variance in a particular lot will not vary more than + or - .001" base to ogive in 98 out of 100. The lead tipped one is odd to say the least. I'm sure Berger would be glad to take a look at it and certainly this doesn't happen often. I have not shot the hybrids in hunting situations, so can't vouch for their effectiveness. I do see that by the picture you are shooting target Bergers and not hunting Bergers. Berger Hunting VLD's have inflicted massive wound channels in whitetail for me. A whitetail that gets away after being shot with those has most likely been hit poorly.

 

[WildRose]

I have a few 8 pounders myself and just got another... Never too much.

No kidding. I pick up RL 25, 33, and H1000 anytime I see some in stock some place. I guess if I ever give up hunting and shooting I'm going to make one hell of a hole some where to make sure it's all safely disposed of.

 

[HuntFarther]

This is a pic of a 180 grain Berger shot from a 7lrm. The bullet was recovered from the opposite side of entrance just under the hide of a bull elk. The distance was a tad over 650 yards. Weight retention was approximately 62%. Bullet did what it was suppose to do. I have taken several animals with Bergers in various calibers without any failures.

Perfect performance for a controlled expansion bullet.

 

[HuntFarther]

I shoot quite a few Bergers in a year and I will say Bergers are the most quality contolled bullets that I load. Variance in a particular lot will not vary more than + or - .001" base to ogive in 98 out of 100. The lead tipped one is odd to say the least. I'm sure Berger would be glad to take a look at it and certainly this doesn't happen often. I have not shot the hybrids in hunting situations, so can't vouch for their effectiveness. I do see that by the picture you are shooting target Bergers and not hunting Bergers. Berger Hunting VLD's have inflicted massive wound channels in whitetail for me. A whitetail that gets away after being shot with those has most likely been hit poorly.

If you think me having problems because of using TARGET bullets. Maybe somebody should let broz and everyone that is shooting the 215's know. I believed that the targets were shot for many years prior to the hunting bullet line. It sounds great in theory but I am not believing that is the problem. Also these are for a customers rifle. I was using the 195 elite hunters in 7mm and the 300 grain elite hunters. Did not have any failures with the 195 to date. They seem to work good so far. But minimal kills with them.

Oh not sure what to take of your quality control statement. This is a brand new box. Just cut open. What are you saying I filed the tip off on the one and filled the tip with lead on the other? You can see from the looks of the bullet they are all bergers and hybrids on top.

 

[Barrelnut]

If you think me having problems because of using TARGET bullets. Maybe somebody should let broz and everyone that is shooting the 215's know.

Not quoting, but I believe Broz states in a thread that he feels the success of the 215 target bullet in hunting has to do with the large amount of space inside the hollow point of the 215. Seems there is a large cavity there before hitting the lead. Guess they did it for the long point on the bullet. Also believe he has a pic of a 215 opened so you could see the difference.

 

[Timeout]

If you think me having problems because of using TARGET bullets. Maybe somebody should let broz and everyone that is shooting the 215's know. I believed that the targets were shot for many years prior to the hunting bullet line. It sounds great in theory but I am not believing that is the problem. Also these are for a customers rifle. I was using the 195 elite hunters in 7mm and the 300 grain elite hunters. Did not have any failures with the 195 to date. They seem to work good so far. But minimal kills with them.

Oh not sure what to take of your quality control statement. This is a brand new box. Just cut open. What are you saying I filed the tip off on the one and filled the tip with lead on the other? You can see from the looks of the bullet they are all bergers and hybrids on top.

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. I said that I have never shot the hybrid bullets in hunting situations, so I don't have any first hand knowledge of their effectiveness on animals. I do know the Hunting VLD's cause massive damage and wound channels. I sure as hell never accused you of altering bullets! I was simply saying that as factory bullets go, Bergers are the highest with regards to quality control of any bullets I have loaded. I in no way stated or implied that your findings were bogus. I further believe that Berger would like to see the bullets and would make it right with you. You showed a target bullet box in the photo and I made an observation.

 

[Pdvdh]

Oh not sure what to take of your quality control statement. This is a brand new box. Just cut open. What are you saying I filed the tip off on the one and filled the tip with lead on the other? You can see from the looks of the bullet they are all bergers and hybrids on top.

Weird that they're differing lengths and lead plugging the tip in the one, yet they all weigh about the same. Maybe weight is the primary QA/QC control. Clearly bullet length isn't.

 

[HuntFarther]

Weird that they're differing lengths and lead plugging the tip in the one, yet they all weigh about the same. Maybe weight is the primary QA/QC control. Clearly bullet length isn't.

What I am starting to think is maybe there is weight differences on the jackets. I believed they use a j4 jacket and the are supposed to be extremely consistent. I knew a guy that made bullets he was a drunk but knew his stuff. I watched him make a lot of bullets. Not sure how these guys do it, but when he swagged his cores they were done and were consistent. SO knowing how he made his bullets that would leave one thing left and that would be the cups. He also made all his cups and they were consistent. What I don't know is if you have different machined making different parts, or worn parts. I know he had to watch that the machines did not heat the bullets or it would change them.

The only ways for bullets to be of different lengths and weigh the same, is for components to differ in weights. I had out of this 1000 lot of 180 hybrids three lead tipped ones. I used the other two just as foulers.

 

[HuntFarther]

Just went through this box of 180 hybrids and 32 were closed tips. You can see all the closed tipped one looked identical, like one set of dies made them. Might just be the combo of that exact jacket forms that way as well. Because the good open tipped ones were perfect. The marginal open tipped ones to me if two different dies could have been used. They would have been a shorter jacket or whatever but ran through the closed tipped dies.

Have a box of 180 hunting sitting here and out of ten six were closed. So not sure what to say.

 

[sp6x6]

Ive been shooting the 300 hybrid tact otm for 5 yrs.With myself,son and a few others taken game with my rifle.Ive had good luck with them but thats proply only 2-6 animals a year so not that many.Im shooting larger than needed for the game in most instance.As ive said had massive tissue damage,but 300 gr alot of bullet.Have had a lost bear at close to 600 and elk that needed follow up,these where both from same high school kid, and the bear shot was not a good angle,I told him to wait,elk my son was spotting so I did not see,but was a far back hit,which if I new would have given it time.

 

[Timeout]

Weird that they're differing lengths and lead plugging the tip in the one, yet they all weigh about the same. Maybe weight is the primary QA/QC control. Clearly bullet length isn't.

Pehaps getting off topic, but the bullet length that matters with regards to accuracy is "Base to Ogive". This is the measurement from base of the bullet to where the bullet touches the lands of your barrel. As little as .002" can affect point of impact (group size) on the target. Changing the distance of where the ogive is with regards to the lands is one of the most important aspects to "tuning" a load for your rifle. My experience with Berger bullets is that 98 out of 100 will be within +- .001" with regards to Base to Ogive measurement. This refers to bullets from within the same lot #. Different lot #'s will vary in base to ogive length from lot to lot. As for tips of the bullets, I do know that a lot of 1000 yard target shooters rework the tips to achieve the utmost uniformity. Google metplat trimmers. Were this not a Long Range Hunting forum, I would not mention any of this. At 100 yards shooting big game it won't make a hill of beans. Stretch it out to 300 or more and we're talking not only clean kill or wounded, but hit or miss.

 

[HuntFarther]

Pehaps getting off topic, but the bullet length that matters with regards to accuracy is "Base to Ogive". This is the measurement from base of the bullet to where the bullet touches the lands of your barrel. As little as .002" can affect point of impact (group size) on the target. Changing the distance of where the ogive is with regards to the lands is one of the most important aspects to "tuning" a load for your rifle. My experience with Berger bullets is that 98 out of 100 will be within +- .001" with regards to Base to Ogive measurement. This refers to bullets from within the same lot #. Different lot #'s will vary in base to ogive length from lot to lot. As for tips of the bullets, I do know that a lot of 1000 yard target shooters rework the tips to achieve the utmost uniformity. Google metplat trimmers. Were this not a Long Range Hunting forum, I would not mention any of this. At 100 yards shooting big game it won't make a hill of beans. Stretch it out to 300 or more and we're talking not only clean kill or wounded, but hit or miss.

I am not sure what to say, I thought this was a long range hunting forum? Or did I miss something else. I have never had to individually set the ogive for hunting rifles at all to get hitting performance. If your gun will only shoot one moa that would still kill elk all day long at 1000 yards, and I don't own a one moa gun. That is only a ten inch group. Everything that I have been talking about is long range. I don't remember the last animal that was shot inside a few hundred yards with berger bullets. I think what we were talking about on the length of bullet or atleast I was. Was there has to be different materials making it this way. The copper cups have to vary or the lead core is varying based on density or something. And this could change the strengths of the bullets and how they act. If that makes sense?

 

[Timeout]

I am not sure what to say, I thought this was a long range hunting forum? Or did I miss something else. I have never had to individually set the ogive for hunting rifles at all to get hitting performance. If your gun will only shoot one moa that would still kill elk all day long at 1000 yards, and I don't own a one moa gun. That is only a ten inch group. Everything that I have been talking about is long range. I don't remember the last animal that was shot inside a few hundred yards with berger bullets. I think what we were talking about on the length of bullet or atleast I was. Was there has to be different materials making it this way. The copper cups have to vary or the lead core is varying based on density or something. And this could change the strengths of the bullets and how they act. If that makes sense?

OK. I'm off topic and will back out. Just let me say first that you "don't set the ogive". You change seating depths when reloading, based on where the ogive meets the lands, to obtain the best group that your rifle can shoot. It makes one helluva difference in Long Range Hunting. If Minute of Pie Plate works for someone, I'm good with that. It doesn't satisfy my shooting/hunting goals however.