Berger hunting bullet paperclip/staple testing

[StrutNut]

One thing I learned about all the years of archery hunting, that double lung shot kills them, gives great blood trails and I loose minimal meat. I shoot for the same place with rifles, they may not drop right there but they are dropping within eye site, there will be blood and there will not be meat loss. I hate tracking animals from hunters who go for the shoulders. Aim to hi, Broz covered that. Two low and you have a 3 legged critter to chase.

 

[2xcluck]

As this is my first comment after watching and reading LRH for a few years, I will be brief and to the point. As a professional hunting guide for over 20 years. I have watched the trend of Clients showing up to camp shooting Berger's going up...WAY up. Performance has been inconsistent at best. On elk, blow-ups and shallow penetration especially on big bone hits with tracking work, to one and done down in their tracks. On mule deer, pencil holes on non big bone hits, explosive on big bones I have lost one mule deer( on a high rib cage hit), but recovered all elk. To me they seem to be VERY velocity sensitive and inconsistent. Not all perfect bullet placement, but most in heart-lung-shoulder area. Non scientific I know, but probably 30-35 animals with Berger's of experience. 6.5, .270.7mm and .30 caliber bullets. 275-750 yards. I certainly am not bashing Berger's. Just passing on my 2cents of experience.

 

[azsugarbear]

If your shots will be of limited distance...say 500 yds or less, I would go with the Barnes TSX. The lower BC of the bullet won't matter much at 500 yds or less. Bone or boiler room, it will not matter. Great expansion with a 140 gr. out of a 7mm-08. But if long distance is the game, then Berger would be my first choice.

 

[Bigeclipse]

Lets look hard at what you are posting here. Why does a "Buck of a lifetime" make any difference? Do they not deserve the same respect of a well placed shot as a small doe? So listen to what you are saying here. I want to use a small rifle with a small for caliber bullet. I want to take a poor shot that supports a low percentage chance to enter the vitals, and I want it dead now with little or no chance of a wreck. If you want to have all this then shoot a 338 with a 300 gr Berger OTM and you have a very good chance of what you are asking for. If you want to use one of the smallest 7mm chamberings you can, and use a light for caliber bullet to boot, then yes the chance of a wreck is there. I feel there is just as much risk with the Accubombs. I have seen plenty of tipped bullets over expand when introduced into hard bone at a close distance.

Jeff

Lol wow. That is not what I am saying. What I am saying is when a buck of a lifetime enters the picture all sensible thought goes out the window which could lead to a poor shot decision. Secondly. I don't think 7mm08 is small on deer at all
Dang i can't count the amount of deer I have shoulder shot with a 243 and accubond. Must be upwards of 30 by now with zero issues. These are not elk we are talking about here. Not sure what kind of deer you are hunting. Do they wear flack jackets?

Guess I will be sticking with accubonds but thanks for your thoughts

 

[ShootnMathews]

One thing I learned about all the years of archery hunting, that double lung shot kills them, gives great blood trails and I loose minimal meat. I shoot for the same place with rifles, they may not drop right there but they are dropping within eye site, there will be blood and there will not be meat loss. I hate tracking animals from hunters who go for the shoulders. Aim to hi, Broz covered that. Two low and you have a 3 legged critter to chase.

From many years of bow hunting I use the same strategy. I ALWAYS shoot for a double lung shot. With bow or rifle. If I can't get a good double lung shot I hold my shot. Slightly quartering towards or away is fine, as long as I can hit them both. For many years now I can not think of an animal that I could not get a broadside shot on if I waited long enough. With a double lung shot you don't get that bang flop that you see on tv. They run, some 20 yards, some 100 yards. 95% of the deer I double lung run about 30 yards. After probably 50 deer I've killed or coached over the last several years, 30 yards seems to be the magic number for how far they can go with both lungs punched. Now there are exceptions. I blew a golf ball sized hole through a 4.5 yr old 9 point last year. Broadside, dead center of lungs and it ran easily over 100 yards and left one drop of blood, that I found. Now where the deer was laying there must have been over a gallon of blood. And the deer was dead in less than a minute.

Every bullet acts differently and does better in different media. In my opinion Bergers are lung bullets, as are the Nosler BT bullets that I almost exclusively use. I use about 90% Nosler BT and 10% Berger bullets. I saw a thread somewhere on the net about Nosler BT's being the worst bullet ever made, with dozens of people talking about lost deer. After inquiring with them about placement, nearly all of them were trying to do the "TV bang flop shoulder shot". The rest were poorly placed shots, guts, brisket, such like that. I honestly cannot count the number of deer that been killed with my guns and Nosler BT bullets and so far have not lost a single deer. Again I accredit most of this to waiting for a broadside, double lung shot. I'll post a pic of the dead deer that somehow ran 100 + yards as soon as I find it. By the way, of the deer I've killed with the bergers, all lung shots also, I can tell no difference between the Nosler BT and Berger hunting bullets. Both bullets completely obliterate the lungs inside. With both when field dressing you can literally almost pour the lungs out of the animal.

I know that's long winded, but I said all that to the point of , PLACEMENT is FAR more important than bullet selection.

 

[Broz]

Lol wow. That is not what I am saying. What I am saying is when a buck of a lifetime enters the picture all sensible thought goes out the window which could lead to a poor shot decision. Secondly. I don't think 7mm08 is small on deer at all
Dang i can't count the amount of deer I have shoulder shot with a 243 and accubond. Must be upwards of 30 by now with zero issues. These are not elk we are talking about here. Not sure what kind of deer you are hunting. Do they wear flack jackets?

Guess I will be sticking with accubonds but thanks for your thoughts

Well wow LOL, I am sorry I misunderstood you. But what do you want? I only was offering what I believe to be true after taking so many animals with Bergers from Antelope to Elk.

So if you can't count the number of good experiences (over 30 with no issues) you have had with a .243 and an Accubond on shoulder shots, why not use that combo? I would encourage you to use what ever you have confidence in.

I will ignore the smart remark about the deer I hunt. And I know very well you are not hunting elk. Since I grew up in Iowa and hunted WT deer most of my life, and just might have a couple pretty good bucks on my wall. I was only offering my true opinion.

Seems that the OP topic about checking tips to be open has been covered in more than a few threads here on LRH. What new revelations were you wanting to hear. You were given good advice by more than a few hunters that use Bergers. But I guess it was just not what you wanted us to say.

No problem, good luck with what ever you decide and have some great hunts.

Jeff

 

[ShootnMathews]

This is the 4.5 yr old whitetail that went over 100 yards. This is the exit hole. The entrance was on the same elevation and 2-3" towards the rear from the exit hole. The leg is slightly lifted here which kind of closed the hole up, but it was a nice round exit at the diameter of the width you see. This was a Nosler BT bullet, but with bergers I tend to see about the same size exit hole. Typically golfball sized exits. Sometimes more. One deer I shot with a Berger, also a 9 point was at about 70 yards, double lung, close to 3000 fps with a 140 VLD, left about a 6" exit hole. The deer ran 20 yards and fell down and bedded up and somehow took an incredible amount of time to die. It actually had nearly half a lung hanging out the hole. Some animals are just amazing. I actually shot that deer a second time after several minutes.

 

[SidecarFlip]

geeze Broz, you drained him.........

Here we go with the Berger crap again........

I load nothing but for rifles. Handguns... Sierra's.......

I've found the meplats (on older runs of Berger VLD's) to be somewhat inconsistent but a quick tip in the lathe with a milling cutter chucked in the tailstock cures that issue.

late runs are much better (consistent).

 

[SHRTSHTR]

geeze Broz, you drained him.........

Here we go with the Berger crap again........

I load nothing but for rifles. Handguns... Sierra's.......

I've found the meplats (on older runs of Berger VLD's) to be somewhat inconsistent but a quick tip in the lathe with a milling cutter chucked in the tailstock cures that issue.

late runs are much better (consistent).

I had some older runs with closed meplats as well. We are on a new lot now and meplats are much more consistent.
I point, face and drill each bullet. I have found when HBN tumbling tips get clogged. I put them in lathe and work them over.
I like the way they shoot and perform on game much better than a closed, jagged or clogged meplat.
Also feel a little over gunned with 300g bullets on small Whitetail and Antelope under 300 yards.

Ray

 

[SidecarFlip]

I had some older runs with closed meplats as well. We are on a new lot now and meplats are much more consistent.
I point, face and drill each bullet. I have found when HBN tumbling tips get clogged. I put them in lathe and work them over.
I like the way they shoot and perform on game much better than a closed, jagged or clogged meplat.
Also feel a little over gunned with 300g bullets on small Whitetail and Antelope under 300 yards.

Ray

The last box of 500 I got from Bullets.com was pretty good far as meplat uniformity was concerned.

I tip 'em with an end mill to uniform and open them with a 60 wire size drill, not so much with the later runs.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

After reloading a box i search through and find 5 or so that have nicely formed meplats and check them and set them to the left side of the box. These will be for hunting. Easy as that. I also dont shoot nearly as many animals as some on LRH do.

Another thing i do that i think might help is i typically dont load from the mag. Sometimes when you snap one out of the mag the tip can hit something on its way into battery.

If im running low on shells i will chamfer or drill a tip on a otherwise poor meplat to have an uniform and open tip for a hunt, but its not my common practice.

Something i will start to ask when people have less than ideal bullet openings, is what kind of barrel they are using. i think this is often overlooked. Maybe one day we can start to make a connection here.

 

[HuntFarther]

Here is the wide variance of tips out of the box I opened today to reload.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

Thats significatly worse than what i usually see.

 

[HuntFarther]

Thats significatly worse than what i usually see.

I am going to put the lead tip one up in the lathe and turn it into a elk killer yet. No worries just a shade more prep but it will happen. Lol