Berger HUNTING Bullets

[Buttermilk]

You have enough scope rings holding that scope on????? fewer quality rings are a whole lot better than a bunch of cheap azzed ones.

These are some quality rings contrary to what you might think. This thing kicks like a mule so I've got three to assist with minimizing scope tube flex.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Sure look like Weaver aluminum rings to me. You don't need or require that many on any firearm.

Have no idea what 'scope tube flex' is. never heard of it. If the tube flexes, the erector system fails.

If you'd had used a good set of rings (like Talley or Warne) and properly lapped them prior to mounting the scope, there would be no need for your 'parade of rings'.

It's your thing though, certainly not mine.

Carry on....

 

[Barrelnut]

Have no idea what 'scope tube flex' is. never heard of it. If the tube flexes, the erector system fails.

It's a true phenomenon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5pVya7eask

 

[SidecarFlip]

Not that I own a 50 or want one....lol

338 is expensive enough.

My reference was entirely to tube flex as it relates to misalignment and to improperly lapped rings causing among other things, ring marks on tubes and erratic tracking due to the erector not being able to smoothly move in the tube itself. The erector mechanism is actually a tube within the main tube, suspended on springs that allow windage and elevation adjustments. Squeezing the main tube in poorly aligned / lapped rings, causes the main tube to interfere with that movement.

Nothing more.

If the rings are properly aligned and lapped and the contact area is maximized between the rings and the scope (and of course the ring segments are properly torqued), I've never seen any need to use multiple ring sets and I have a lot of sticks and pistols in various calibers... and none have ever moved.

I guess it looks badass, but myself, I'm not into badass, I'm into accurate and repeatable and I don't care for Weaver rings except maybe on a 22 rifle.

 

[Pdvdh]

Well contact Berger because you've had more fail than any single person I know and your having repeat issues, heck maybe you can figure it out. I have one single Berger not open and it was a hit through the flank that hit nothing going through, it would have taken a varmint bullet to open.

If I shoot an expanding bullet solidly into the body of a large game animal such that the bullet will travel the near full width of the body, the bullet impacts at a velocity exceeding the bullet manufacturer's advertised minimum velocity for expansion, and the bullet doesn't expand - that meets my definition of a expanding bullet failing to expand. I don't care if the bullet impacts the body in the guts, the bladder, the stomach, the liver, the ribs, the shoulders, the hams or the neck. My personal expectation is that the bullet will expand, providing it impacts above the manufacturers specified minimum expansion velocity. If it doesn't, the bullet failed me. I didn't fail the bullet.

On average, I think animals and people are 80% water by weight. Water offers plenty of resistance to bullets to cause expansion. If a bullet won't expand when it impacts water, I don't wanna use it. If an expanding hunting bullet has to impact bone in order to expand, I expect the manufacturer of that bullet to inform its customers of that restriction.

 

[SHRTSHTR]

Thought this thread was about Berger hunting bullets? I could care less how many sets of rings this guy uses! Just wish I was the one selling the rings to him

25 pages and counting, seems to be two sides on Berger performance on game. People that do not trust them/hate them and people that love them more than their first born!

To bad we cannot all come together as a long range community and maybe admit that just maybe some of the complaints hunters have with Berger bullets might be legit. We should be working together to help the manufacturer make us an even better mouse trap and help fellow hunters with problems they are having. Hmm? maybe were not as smart as we all think we are either lightbulb

Ray

 

[bigngreen]

If I shoot an expanding bullet solidly into the body of a large game animal such that the bullet will travel the near full width of the body, the bullet impacts at a velocity exceeding the bullet manufacturer's advertised minimum velocity for expansion, and the bullet doesn't expand - that meets my definition of a expanding bullet failing to expand. I don't care if the bullet impacts the body in the guts, the bladder, the stomach, the liver, the ribs, the shoulders, the hams or the neck. My personal expectation is that the bullet will expand, providing it impacts above the manufacturers specified minimum expansion velocity. If it doesn't, the bullet failed me. I didn't fail the bullet.

On average, I think animals and people are 80% water by weight. Water offers plenty of resistance to bullets to cause expansion. If a bullet won't expand when it impacts water, I don't wanna use it. If an expanding hunting bullet has to impact bone in order to expand, I expect the manufacturer of that bullet to inform its customers of that restriction.

I would normally agree but laying out the gutts in the snow and not being able to find a single hole in anything and careful inspection of every inch of what was in the bullet path the ONLY resistance that bullet met was the on side hide, I felt for sure I'd seen a failure, but when the evidence is looked at it would have had to had been a bullet that would have opened with a hit on the hide and a Berger does not open on the hide or even the first inch or so from what I've seen.

 

[HuntFarther]

HuntFarther,

Same question. Could you respond? First Berger I've seen with lead protruding from its tip. Was the shorter bullet straight out of the same box as the other two?

Ok here are the weights. Left is 180.0 Center is 179.9 and right is 180.0

Yes all are out of the same box. I have had three exposed lead tipped ones out of the 1000 bullets, (10 boxes). All were shrink wrapped together. These bullets are available if berger needs them.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Thought this thread was about Berger hunting bullets? I could care less how many sets of rings this guy uses! Just wish I was the one selling the rings to him

25 pages and counting, seems to be two sides on Berger performance on game. People that do not trust them/hate them and people that love them more than their first born!

To bad we cannot all come together as a long range community and maybe admit that just maybe some of the complaints hunters have with Berger bullets might be legit. We should be working together to help the manufacturer make us an even better mouse trap and help fellow hunters with problems they are having. Hmm? maybe were not as smart as we all think we are either lightbulb

Ray

It was too hard not to comment about the quantity rings....lol

I shoot Bergers almost exclusively and never an issue. if Berger made a handgun pill, I'd probably use them too. I've never had an issue but I do sort them for meplat issues and correct the flaws. Besides, Brian Litz is my neighbor (up north)...lol

 

[Pdvdh]

HF,
Thanks. I didn't expect those answers based on the photos. Good to know. Surprising that the weights of those three bullets are so similar.

 

[SHRTSHTR]

It was too hard not to comment about the quantity rings....lol

I shoot Bergers almost exclusively and never an issue. if Berger made a handgun pill, I'd probably use them too. I've never had an issue but I do sort them for meplat issues and correct the flaws. Besides, Brian Litz is my neighbor (up north)...lol

Good enough, so you do sort them for uniformity and correct the flaws? We all know that Berger does not support nor endorse modifying meplats whatsoever. We also know that the some "long-range specialists" on this forum and others do some sort of meplats doctoring. This has been covered already but Why??

I may have missed the thread where someone asked Berger if a closed meplats vs a open meplat would perform differently on game. I also know that the Berger people have heard everything we are talking about past and present!

Another question for the longrange experts or novice shooter: Is the jacket thickness the same for say a 140g Berger and a 300g Berger? Another words will a bullet of different caliber/ velocity perform differently?
Another question, what is the jacket thickness of a Berger 300g OTM in the meplat cavity area? I know, do you? You might be surprised!

Ray

 

[Buttermilk]

Sure look like Weaver aluminum rings to me. You don't need or require that many on any firearm.

Have no idea what 'scope tube flex' is. never heard of it. If the tube flexes, the erector system fails.

If you'd had used a good set of rings (like Talley or Warne) and properly lapped them prior to mounting the scope, there would be no need for your 'parade of rings'.

It's your thing though, certainly not mine.

Carry on....

It certainly is my thing and not yours. I reckon your just not as informed as I am on scope tube flex...

Now, back to the Berger programming....

 

[cowboy]

To bad we cannot all come together as a long range community and maybe admit that just maybe some of the complaints hunters have with Berger bullets might be legit. We should be working together to help the manufacturer make us an even better mouse trap and help fellow hunters with problems they are having. Hmm? maybe were not as smart as we all think we are either lightbulb

Ray

Ray: Couldn't agree with you more - however...................

You can not help someone that will not admit they have a problem be it with any item, situation or circumstance - namely the manufacturer - or someone who has never had a bad experience.

Those of us that have used them for a long period of time and taken either a lot of game with them or a few head have either never had a problem, had a situation once or seldom, or maybe never had a problem. Most frequent response I hear is "every bullet manufacturer has had a bullet not perform as it was intended." Not sure that is suppose to make someone feel better that has had a problem. Either that or the most common response lately is politely telling someone they are a pizz poor shoot and didn't put the bullet in the right place - that always goes over like a fart in church.

I will admit that we keep stretching the boundary limits compared to previous times. Technology keeps advancing our capabilities and as a society our demands keep increasing.

I will say that I have encouraged, instructed or coached way too many people to use Bergers because of my good experiences and not cautioning them on "potential" shortcomings.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Good enough, so you do sort them for uniformity and correct the flaws? We all know that Berger does not support nor endorse modifying meplats whatsoever. We also know that the some "long-range specialists" on this forum and others do some sort of meplats doctoring. This has been covered already but Why??

I do but only for meplat inconsistency, I've weighed them and weight wise most are very close in weight, at least the 168's and the 185's I load. All I do is square the meplats if they are lopsided. Nothing more. While I looad with John Whidden dies and I've considered the Whidden pointing tool, I'm concerned about altering the BC too much so I don't use one....

I may have missed the thread where someone asked Berger if a closed meplats vs a open meplat would perform differently on game. I also know that the Berger people have heard everything we are talking about past and present!

I'm sure they are, at least Eric Streckler and Brian Litz is. Brian is a frequent poster on this site and I've said before that later runs of the pills I load are consistently better than earlier runs, IOW, I do much less squaring of the meplats than I did before

Another question for the longrange experts or novice shooter: Is the jacket thickness the same for say a 140g Berger and a 300g Berger? Another words will a bullet of different caliber/ velocity perform differently?
Another question, what is the jacket thickness of a Berger 300g OTM in the meplat cavity area? I know, do you? You might be surprised!

I might be. Far as I know, Berger obtains their jackets from Sierra or at least did in the past. I don't load 300 grain pills from Berger. I only have one stick that accepts a 300 grain pill, my 338 Lapua and I load Sierra's in 250's and 300's for that.

Ray

I attempted to answer your questions... I don't hold a lot of candle in jacket thickness. The Bergers work for me consistently. Never gave much thought to jacket thickness.