Berger Fail on elk

[FEENIX]

I'd make dang sure my buddy had elk meat in the freezer, he put the first shot that could/should be lethal on the elk and it was down what kind of person would let that elk leave the scene without putting it down even if it was a buddies!!!

Amen to that!

 

[rjmarine]

Mike , did you put your tag on the elk since you killed it ? I don't personally fill other people's tags for them.

i really do hope that was just a very bad joke. if not what an *** to hunt with where you just stand there with your thumb in your you know what watching a friends wounded elk run off. but i see you are from fl so maybe you never have seen just how far a wounded elk can go

good shooting to anchor your friends wounded elk . i have seen the same thing you did with 2 deer but not berger vld bullets. both very close range and both just a crater like you said with no penetration at all.

 

[300 ultra]

I think bullet weight for Bergers is critical to caliber specs. 180 gr out of a wsm is not ideal. As stated the 215's would of been a different story. Monotholic bullets such as Barnes I feel lighter gr bullets work better.. frangible style designs such as Bergers the extra grains are definetly favorable. Berger bullets kill wonderfully in the right application. I don't think your public bashing of a poor bullet weight/fps issue is a fair representation of what Bergers can do in the field

 

[sp6x6]

Mike good job on the follow up.

I have had success and failures with the bergers. 300 rum with 210 on a 550 yard mule deer, lower shoulder ie heavy bone. Not where I wanted knowing the bergers limitations. Dropped right there, Never moved for 5 minutes, made a short walk to camp and came back to a "missing deer"

Another mule deer at 800+ with 7 rum 180 bergers, first shot again had the misfortune of hitting the shoulder knuckle. Thank God that deer stayed on it's feet so I followed it up with a correction that put the bullet on the high shoulder and toppled him.

both those hunts ended my use of those 2 particular rifle bullet combinations.

300 otms out of a 338 Lapua imp., much better results on 968 yard elk. first one on the heart, exit, expansion was ok, second one thru the classic high shoulder, great expansion 2-3" exit with a bang flop.

But that is the advantage of 300 grain pill, at least half of it should hold together, might change my mind next year if I am unlucky enough to have one land on the point of the shoulder. I may be knit picking not many bullets survive that hit very well, unless they are copper core.

My thoughts also, I use berger very little in lighter calibers for hunting

 

[MachV]

Last year we had a deer walk away from a 180 Berger out of a 300WSM @ 450 yards, it didn't go far but far enough that we didn't find it that night and the coyotes had it by morning.
Heck I don't trust a hollow point on prairie dogs let alone a game animal.
My 7 mag will shoot the Bergers great but gets 160 Partitions just because.....Though the deer this year got back up from a high shoulder shot (as in the very top of the scapula) with the Partitions .
My hunting partner quit using the LRX Barns after we where picking up reloadable bullets out of the 600 yard berm.
They say an SST will blow up on critters but the only goat I ever used one on penciled through like a target arrow leaving very little damage to the lungs at all @ 40 yards no less????
Long way around the barn but my point is IT happens but for me it happens a lot less when a Partition is usedgun)

 

[dmax1800]

I'm new to elk hunting, so please bear with me. I tried Barnes 168 and 180 TTSX in my 300 win mag, but was never totally satisfied with the accuracy of them. I also tried 190 grain VLDs, but again not satisfied with the accuracy. I'm going to try some 180 gr Sierra GameKings and see how they pattern. Does anyone have any experience on the SGKs failing on elk?
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but since you all were on the topic of failing bullets on elk...

 

[HARPERC]

My personal 2cents is the good 30 caliber bullets start at 200 grains and move up. The Bergers may blow, the Barnes may bend and turn, and the Partition may just stop when striking heavy bone, but as bullet weight goes up, bone begins to give in my experience.

Behind the shoulder is good advice, but that shot may not present itself. The wind may blow a bullet off target, the novice might not know where the shoulder begins and ends, and I might just miss.

I haven't been on as many elk kills as others, but as a general rule, offered a choice between the 3 bullets mentioned, my choice would be based more on weight than brand.

Certainly some factoring of hunting style (terminal velocity, twist rate etc.) should be involved in the choice, but generally I'm happier with heavy for caliber bullets. Specifically I've never worked up an affection for 180 grain 30 caliber bullets

 

[benchracer]

I think bullet weight for Bergers is critical to caliber specs. 180 gr out of a wsm is not ideal. As stated the 215's would of been a different story. Monotholic bullets such as Barnes I feel lighter gr bullets work better.. frangible style designs such as Bergers the extra grains are definetly favorable. Berger bullets kill wonderfully in the right application. I don't think your public bashing of a poor bullet weight/fps issue is a fair representation of what Bergers can do in the field

I don't view the OP as bashing Berger bullets. Threads like this serve as useful information to illustrate the limitations inherent in the Berger design. Every bullet design represents a different set of design priorities. I consider myself a fan of the Berger type bullets. But, having chosen to use them, I want to make sure I do so with my eyes wide open.

Armed with information like this, I can take my Bergers to the field and use them in a more educated manner.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I don't view the OP as bashing Berger bullets. Threads like this serve as useful information to illustrate the limitations inherent in the Berger design. Every bullet design represents a different set of design priorities. I consider myself a fan of the Berger type bullets. But, having chosen to use them, I want to make sure I do so with my eyes wide open.

Armed with information like this, I can take my Bergers to the field and use them in a more educated manner.

I agree. I don't think the OP was bashing Berger bullets, just reporting the facts as he witnessed them. Nothing wrong in that and it's good to get this info out. HSM and Berger should be reading these threads so they can learn from them.

IMO, Berger's best 30 cal hunting bullets are the 215 and 230 hybrid and 230 OTM and they are classified as non hunting bullets but these are the bullets I read the best results from. I think Berger should rethink their classification of these bullets. I think Berger and HSM should also publish guidelines in the use of the various calibers and weight bullets to avoid these kinds of occurrences.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Mike, is there a chance that his 185 grain bullet could have hit some grass or limbs that would have initiated expansion right before reaching the elk? In my experience I would have certainly expected better penetration out of that combo. In my earlier days of using and loading Berger bullets for friends, I used to load lighter bullets for caliber too. Included were a couple of 300 Win Mags loaded with 168 VLD's both of which successfully took bull elk with good penetration. One at 350 yards and one at 675 yards. However, I now understand and appreciate loading the heaviest Bergers per caliber. 300 H&H using 215's and 300 RUM using 230 Hybrid Targets. IMO it's cheap insurance

 

[bigngreen]

If they designate them as a hunting bullet they can no longer market them in a military application.

 

[IdahoRedneck]

I agree. I don't think the OP was bashing Berger bullets. just reporting the facts as he witnessed them. Nothing wrong in that and it's good to get this info out. HSM and Berger should be reading these threads so they can learn from them.

IMO, Berger's best 30 cal hunting bullets are the 215 and 230 hybrid and 230 OTM and they are classified as non hunting bullets but these are the bullets I read the best results from. I think Berger should rethink their classification of these bullets. I think Berger and HSM should also publish guidelines in the use of the various calibers and weight bullets to avoid these kinds of occurrences.

Do not forget the 210. Its the bullet that started this..... I read that the 230 elite hunters are scheduled for release in 2014. So bergers way ahead of ya on there classification.

 

[Greyfox]

With the exception of the big bore(338-458) calbers used with bullets designed for heavy boned large game, I tend to not draw too many hard conclusions on shoulder shots. Over the years I have experienced a wide degree of bullet performance with this shot. Angle, location, velocity, etc, have given varied results for me with the same bullet, bonded, unbounded, heavy/light for caliber. Some drop like lighting hit them, some don't. I have had good success with the Bergers from 6.5-.300 caliber, but have noticed that a bullet that smashes a shoulder bone and gives good penetration tends to zip through a behind the shoulder, heart /chest shot, with variable expansion. I get really critical of a bullet that repeatly gives poor performance on the high percentage chest shot. The heavy, high sectional density 300's seem to be the best compromise on elk and big mulies but have still given me varied performance on medium game/chest shots. In a 6.5x284, the 140 Bergers have performed quite well on chest shots with a decent number of medium sized animals taken with the 140 Berger Hunting VLDs snd JLKs. Full penetration and major internal damage from 50-1000 yards. I'm not sure the technology exists yet to give the all around perfect bullet. IMHO.

 

[Freedom2live]

There are lots of stories like yours out there. I have no use for Bergers and I think they would go away, if not for their great target ballistics. They are way overrated as far as their performance on game.

Took the words out of my mind, no use for such junk on animals. Granted , great on paper but thats about it.