Berger Fail on elk

[FEENIX]

An extract from Len's message (Long Range Hunting - About Us)


When I posted in some general hunting forums about my long range successes in Wisconsin and out West my threads were inevitably hijacked by naysayers who wanted to debate the ethics of my shots. One day I'd had enough and I decided to start my own forum where long range hunting and shooting could be discussed without all the negative fuss - and in 2001 LRH was born!


It don't get no simpler than that!

 

[varmintH8R]

Mike -

Thanks for posting. As others have stated earlier, I don't view your report as bashing Bergers. I appreciate hearing differing experiences from members to help me form my opinion on bullets for Elk.

I don't live in Elk country, but have a hunt planned for next year. Reading these posts (good results and poor results alike) is extremely valuable to me - helps me understand and evaluate the pros and cons of different types of bullets on larger game than I am used to.

There is a very good chance I'll be loading Bergers for my hunt - but due to these types of threads I have a lot better understanding of what bullet weight, shot selection, and velocity parameters give me the best chance of success.

Nice to see the pot-stirrers with nothing constructive to add get the "B"! Happy New Year!

 

[Boman]

Well now I'm real nervous about shooting the 190s in my lazz warbird. I wish I could go heavier but the twist on my barrel won't allow it.. might try the lrabs.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Well now I'm real nervous about shooting the 190s in my lazz warbird. I wish I could go heavier but the twist on my barrel won't allow it.. might try the lrabs.

The ABLR's are also very frangible. Good chance for a wreck at high velocity. If you have a 12" twist, the 200 AB should work OK for you.

 

[Boman]

Thanks montanarifleman, I didn't know that about the ablrs. I thought they were bonded.. I know swampman had good luck with the 200gr accubonds in the warbird. Yes I have 12 twist too. Pretty well limits my bullet choices. Thanks again

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Thanks montanarifleman, I didn't know that about the ablrs. I thought they were bonded.. I know swampman had good luck with the 200gr accubonds in the warbird. Yes I have 12 twist too. Pretty well limits my bullet choices. Thanks again

The ABLR's are advertised to be bonded but never-the-less, they are very frangible at high velocities. Do a little thread searching.

The 200 AB isn't the greatest LR bullet around but t isn't bad. 4 or 5 years ago it was one of the top choices with LR hunters.

 

[varmintH8R]

The ABLR's are advertised to be bonded but never-the-less, they are very frangible at high velocities. Do a little thread searching.

I could be wrong, so please someone correct me if needed. I read somewhere (NOT directly related to the LRAB) that bonded bullets require a softer type of lead to facilitate bonding to the jacket. So while bonding definitely increases weight retention, one of the trade-offs is that once the jacket opens up the lead itself is relatively soft and pliable compared to some other bullets. This is potentially the reason for the low expansion velocities, and the extremely rapid expansion at high velocities.

Like everything - no free lunch. Another reason these bullet performance threads help us all get smarter.

 

[Boman]

Good info. Makes sense on both. Thanks guys

 

[supercrossbmx69]

Yes, do shoot what you want and know how to use it and place it properly. Good point.

And Yes, we have read your posts and realize you are opposed to long range shots and have heard you state your opinion that long range is not hunting. But what I am a bit confused about is why you choose a forum called "Long Range Hunting" to converse on. Is it because you feel a need to state your negative opinion of it, and will have more opportunity to impose your thoughts, self imposed limits and lack long range skill on others here? Why not find a site where you can be among others that prefer your type of hunting and share friendly communication there. Might be more fun than all the negative posts on a site that is for exactly what you are against. Just a thought.

Actually in an attempt to add some useful insight to this thread. I disagree about getting closer with a high velocity fragmenting bullet would have helped in the case of this thread. I believe, actually the fact is, if this same shot and placement would have been from another 200 or 300 yards out the performance of the bullet would have been much different. Scrubbing off a little velocity when using a small for caliber offering with a MV of over 3100 fps could easily have resulted in deeper and maybe full penetration. At least full penetration into the vitals and a broken shoulder. I still would prefer a heavier offering for this shot. Lighter offerings, at closer distances with high velocity, into the thickest and hardest part of the animal is shall we say setting the stage for "the perfect storm".

Jeff

Jeff, why waste your time arguing with these fools? I saw a wolf up whites yesterday evening about 1000 yards off the road you should have been pointing the LRKM at!!

 

[Broz]

I saw a wolf up whites yesterday evening about 1000 yards off the road you should have been pointing the LRKM at!!

Next time please call me. I have access to all the private land in this area. Pm me what direction please.

Jeff

 

[haffyti839]

Well now I'm real nervous about shooting the 190s in my lazz warbird. I wish I could go heavier but the twist on my barrel won't allow it.. might try the lrabs.

Boman I have same caliber and twist and called berger was looking for 215 hybrids which might as well be ghosts.. called berger on 210 and twist issues havent chrono yet mainly bc I havent got bullets in mail but their technicains thought that that twist would be ok there twist calculator also states high end of marginal stability at advertised velocties of the warbird.... should have the bullets any day will leave feed back on stability also end of jan I should have some 30 cal ablr 190gr im gonna try... two bullets I would hunt with just depends which shoots better...


lots of good info dont post much ever but read and learn a lot thatnks

 

[Boman]

Haffyti839,

Interesting info. Please let me know how it goes with those bullets. I would love to shoot the 210s or 215s. I was able to do a little shooting with the 190s and didnt do so well. About a 3 inch group at 100. But that was only one powder and 3 different loads. Please pm me or post your results. I'd love to chat with you about our rifles.