a good Long Range non barrel burn caliber

[MudRunner2005]

I'm thinking 338 win mag, 338-325 WSM or most likely a strait 284 win with a 30 inch tube in 1:8 twist, with Re-17 people are getting 2950 fps at the 180 Berger.
Have it built on the new Berger 195 EOL .792 BC at 2750-2800 should be great, and last well over 2500 rounds 47.8 in drift at 1000 yards with a 10 mph wind.
Burning only around 50-51 grns of powder and Lapua brass.

I don't like that caliber...Mine won't shoot under a 1.5" group @ 100 yards.

Also, this bullet (7mm 195 EOL) doesn't exist to the public yet...People have been waiting for over 2 years to see it released...I wouldn't hold my breath, unless you know something we don't.

 

[AZShooter]

Scottyd,

What elevation are you using for your wind drift calculations?

I used 4000 ft on the JBM program. Just took the time to compare a which velocities will yield same wind drifts:

baseline 338RCM with 300 hybrid @ 2550 8.7" at 500 yds 10 mph crosswind

the .277 with the upcoming 195 hybrid with projected BC of .703 would need 2850 fps

308 with 230 hybrid needs 2737 fps for same drift

7mm with 180 hybrid needs 2935 fps for same drift

Now pondering which cartridge would move the 277, 308 and 284 diameter bullets to those velocities.

I know very little of the 270 cal cartridges and will leave that to others to consider.

The 300 WSM can do it with the 230 hybrid. I made a load for my friend's 300 WSM with RL-17 that did 2720 fps with his short barreled Browning A-bolt and it had the bullet buried! Perhaps the 300 RCM would do it too. A longer barrel would certainly help. The 308 win is a bit too small.

The 284 with a long barrel can get the 180 to 2935 fps. Doubt the 7-08 could but perhaps the 7-08 AI could.

The trend is interesting.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Scottyd,

What elevation are you using for your wind drift calculations?

I used 4000 ft on the JBM program. Just took the time to compare a which velocities will yield same wind drifts:

baseline 338RCM with 300 hybrid @ 2550 8.7" at 500 yds 10 mph crosswind

the .277 with the upcoming 195 hybrid with projected BC of .703 would need 2850 fps

308 with 230 hybrid needs 2737 fps for same drift

7mm with 180 hybrid needs 2935 fps for same drift

Now pondering which cartridge would move the 277, 308 and 284 diameter bullets to those velocities.

I know very little of the 270 cal cartridges and will leave that to others to consider.

The 300 WSM can do it with the 230 hybrid. I made a load for my friend's 300 WSM with RL-17 that did 2720 fps with his short barreled Browning A-bolt and it had the bullet buried! Perhaps the 300 RCM would do it too. A longer barrel would certainly help. The 308 win is a bit too small.

The 284 with a long barrel can get the 180 to 2935 fps. Doubt the 7-08 could but perhaps the 7-08 AI could.

The trend is interesting.

Easily obtainable with the 7mm STW with a 26-28" barrel. My 180 VLD load is mild, at best, and I'm hitting 2,900 with a 26" barrel. And there's guys on here who have gotten 1500 rounds out of an STW barrel before. I have probably 750 or so down mine and it's still puttin them in 1 hole with the right loads and if I do my part.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Hey AZ, don't forget to put into the mix the .308 Win with a 210 Berger VLD traveling 2,400 MV... That's also quite a stinger that will surprise you, like the .338 RCM will.

 

[scottyd2506]

I don't like that caliber...Mine won't shoot under a 1.5" group @ 100 yards.

what caliber, the 338 WM or 284 win?
I hope 284's are not in "general", accurate 1.5 inch at 100 yards is not a good start.

Also, this bullet (7mm 195 EOL) doesn't exist to the public yet...People have been waiting for over 2 years to see it released...I wouldn't hold my breath, unless you know something we don't.

Yes I know, and who can tell when they'll release it, could be another year. I think having the 284 drawn up for the 195 would still be able to shoot the 180's till the time came. With a certain political party out to get our guns, everyone seems to be buying up guns and supplies. Seems Berger is having a hard time just keeping up with demand on what they are selling now.
So yes, I'll bet it will be a wait.


The problem with the 338 WM is the magazine length at 3.6 inches in my M70 would need to be loaded one round at a time. a 338-325 WSM would be ok.
I like the 338 RCM, but the dyes are hard to get.

 

[MudRunner2005]

what caliber, the 338 WM or 284 win?
I hope 284's are not in "general", accurate 1.5 inch at 100 yards is not a good start.




Yes I know, and who can tell when they'll release it, could be another year. I think having the 284 drawn up for the 195 would still be able to shoot the 180's till the time came. With a certain political party out to get our guns, everyone seems to be buying up guns and supplies. Seems Berger is having a hard time just keeping up with demand on what they are selling now.
So yes, I'll bet it will be a wait.


The problem with the 338 WM is the magazine length at 3.6 inches in my M70 would need to be loaded one round at a time. a 338-325 WSM would be ok.
I like the 338 RCM, but the dyes are hard to get.

I was talking about the .338 WinMag...

And yes, Berger is having such a hard time keeping up with demands they don't have time to release anything new or work on any new or existing projects, this is what I was told by Berger.

You will need atleast an 8.75 twist for the 7mm 195 EOL's (I would go 8.5") which will definitely stabilize 180's.

 

[royinidaho]

I think that the new Berger hybrid 277 offering will be 170 grains.

If it ever gets released . . . .

And it ****'d well best beat 0.70 bc by a good bit.

 

[AZShooter]

Mudrunner,

just crunched the 308 with 210 VLD at 2400 comparable drift to the other cartridge /bullet combos I mentioned earlier is not even close with 12.7"drift


Why not seat the 300 gr bullet in a 338 Win Mag to fit and feed from magazine? It might end up right around 2600-2650 fps. If I can seat a 230 hybrid into a 300 WSM to fit my friend's ridiculous OAL of 2.8" and get 2720 fps then the concept could work.

I know the STW AND the 7 LRM will get the 180 to the velocities where it easily competes with the 300 gr hybrid from the 338 RCM. A 32" barrel with a 7 rem mag will do it too.




Scottyd,

I will admit that 338 RCM brass is hard to find. Easily found the hornady die set with first try:

Hornady New Dimension Series I Two-Die Rifle Set .338 RCM 546399 FREE S&H 546399. Hornady Reloading Dies and Die Accessories.


If you decide to go with the 284 I'd suggest you use 6.5-284 Lapua necked up. As for accuracy, I think you will be fine. My opinion is that you should seek out a reamer design with a throat angle of 1 degree 30 min. Lapua is pretty consistent so you probably don't have to go the neck turning route.

Good read on how the BR/F class guys are setting up their 284s:

7mm Cartridge Guide within AccurateShooter.com

 

[MudRunner2005]

Mudrunner,

just crunched the 308 with 210 VLD at 2400 comparable drift to the other cartridge /bullet combos I mentioned earlier is not even close with 12.7"drift.

Man, I was hoping it would be...The .308 is a nice shooter with the big 210 VLD in it. I know it still holds decent velocity and energy @ 1000 for something using a heavy bullet and less than 40gr of powder. And inside of 750 it hits HARD!

I was just trying to help you solidify the theory that small cartridges with big bullets are often underrated in their capabilities.

 

[AZShooter]

Mudrunner,

I didn't mean to let air out of you using a 308 for LR. It isn't THAT bad but not in the same class of drift that's all.

This has been fun. I never thought too much about other cartridges with high BC heavies. Now I have a reference.

I stumbled into the long throated 338 RCM idea. My friend was shooting the 300 gr Sierras out of his 338 RUM. I talked him out of a few and loaded them up kissing the rifling of my sporter weight 22" barrel. It was a single shot proposition. I tried a 54, 55, and 56 gr of RL-17. He was testing things at 200 yds so I shot it at that distance and the hottest load had two bullets into the same hole! It really opened up my eyes. I then went back home and crunched some numbers. I had that worn out 7mm barrel and was grumbling to another range regular and he said why not rebore/rerifle it? Never thought of that either. The rest is history.

 

[scottyd2506]

I think that the new Berger hybrid 277 offering will be 170 grains.

If it ever gets released . . . .

And it ****'d well best beat 0.70 bc by a good bit.

I thought the 170 .277 was around .7 bc .703 or something.. not bad.
The Berger 180 in 7mm is .674bc , so the .277 to .284 seems right. the 195 EOL 7mm at .792 bc is unreal..

I was thinking a 270 WSM with 8 twsit.

I still think the 284 would be the least barrel burner after the 338 RCM
a 195 EOL from a 284 at 2800 fps is going to be hard to beat. good barrel life and velocity, the big 7mm's will beat in in velocity. but how is 3200 fps going to help when groups are 2 inches at 100 yards, most of us know the Berger are most accurate at around 2900 fps or less. the 8 and 8.5 twists spinning the J4 jacket too much seems to effect accuracy.

Anyone know how long a barrel will last on the 300 WSM? seems it's not too overbore 230's at 2700 fps is tempting.

 

[Gene]

My first rifle was a Sako .270 with FN action. I shot mucho targets, groundhogs and deer with it. It was very accurate and finally gave up the ghost at 7,000 rounds.

 

[Greyfox]

I have been an avid 6.5x284 shooter for several years and it will likely remain my favorite and go to rifle for my 1000 yard medium game hunting and serious target work. Depending on shooting style, the barrel life will run 800-1500 rounds. I think the round's reputation for barrel life is overstated. If you don't run it hot, for hunting use, it will be similar to several other rounds that deliver comparable performace. My other rifle is a 300WM. Loaded with 210/215 high BC bullets at 2900-3000FPS, 1000 yard ballistics are equal or better than the 6.5x284, and noticably better as you get further out, particularly in the wind. With the combination of big bullet/velocity and the lack of overbore compared to the 6.5x284 you can get barrel life improvement of 500-1000 rounds over the 6.5x284 given equal shooting conditions. There are superb high BC bullets availabe, particularly the 215 Berger. Rifle weight can be managed within a couple of pounds of my 6.5x284 and with a good brake, balance is excelkent, and the felt recoil difference is negligible, making it a good companion rifle for bigger game and longer range work.IMO

 

[BrentM]

Taking my 6.5 out today with the 160s at .680 bc and will see how they do at LR. Last test was 1280. Did very well. I am going to see if I can get close to 2800 fps. With the 24" might be tough. At 52.5 grains I am 2700