a good Long Range non barrel burn caliber

[ZSteinle]

Hi Scottyd,

I understand. I had my share of barrel burners 257 weatherby, 6mm-284, 7 RUM etc. It is frustrating and time consuming to deal with the hyper rounds sometimes. Sure they offer some awesome performance but at a cost.

When Sierra made a 350 gr 375 cal bullet for the Chey-tac folks that high .805 BC and had me thinking of the possibilities. What if I put that in my 375 Taylor? The 375 Taylor is a 338 win mag necked up to .375. I crunched some numbers and that heavy high BC bullet even going 2300-2400 fps became very interesting. Unfortunately the 350 gr bullet required a faster twist. I put the concept on the back burner.

I kept thinking about this concept. I built a 338 RCM and owned the reamer. I had a worn out 7mm rem mag barrel a 30" Lilja SS 7mm #7 profile which I sent to Dan Pederson to have him bore it and re-rifle it to .338 with a 1 in 9 twist. I gave him my 338 RCM reamer and a dummy round using the 300 gr sierra matchking for long throating. The end result is a short action round that fits and feeds from a long action with enough room to kiss the rifling. When Berger came out with their 300 gr OTM I switched and got even more performance with the higher BC.

The velocity might be considered slow at 2550 fps. It is accurate as heck, bucks the wind and with only 57 grains of RL-17 it can be fired 8-10 times and it only gets warm. The 13 pound rifle's recoil is easy to handle. Cleanup is a breeze. I have fired hundreds of rounds through it and it still looks very good through a bore scope. It IS strange but it fits your description.

I used it on a coues whitetail hunt last year and had a 400 yd chip shot. It worked just fine and didn't damage meat like my other barrel burning hyper rounds.

I would think similar cartridge combinations like the 284 win and the 180 berger hybrid or maybe a 300 RCM with the 230 Berger could also fit the bill for long range performance and longer barrel life.

Here is a picture of the long throated 338 RCM:

I like that! Shoot that's only 200 fps slower than a 338 Norma! That's nothing. How long is your barrel on that rig?

 

[scottyd2506]

Hi Scottyd,

I understand. I had my share of barrel burners 257 weatherby, 6mm-284, 7 RUM etc. It is frustrating and time consuming to deal with the hyper rounds sometimes. Sure they offer some awesome performance but at a cost.

When Sierra made a 350 gr 375 cal bullet for the Chey-tac folks that high .805 BC and had me thinking of the possibilities. What if I put that in my 375 Taylor? The 375 Taylor is a 338 win mag necked up to .375. I crunched some numbers and that heavy high BC bullet even going 2300-2400 fps became very interesting. Unfortunately the 350 gr bullet required a faster twist. I put the concept on the back burner.

I kept thinking about this concept. I built a 338 RCM and owned the reamer. I had a worn out 7mm rem mag barrel a 30" Lilja SS 7mm #7 profile which I sent to Dan Pederson to have him bore it and re-rifle it to .338 with a 1 in 9 twist. I gave him my 338 RCM reamer and a dummy round using the 300 gr sierra matchking for long throating. The end result is a short action round that fits and feeds from a long action with enough room to kiss the rifling. When Berger came out with their 300 gr OTM I switched and got even more performance with the higher BC.

The velocity might be considered slow at 2550 fps. It is accurate as heck, bucks the wind and with only 57 grains of RL-17 it can be fired 8-10 times and it only gets warm. The 13 pound rifle's recoil is easy to handle. Cleanup is a breeze. I have fired hundreds of rounds through it and it still looks very good through a bore scope. It IS strange but it fits your description.

I used it on a coues whitetail hunt last year and had a 400 yd chip shot. It worked just fine and didn't damage meat like my other barrel burning hyper rounds.

I would think similar cartridge combinations like the 284 win and the 180 berger hybrid or maybe a 300 RCM with the 230 Berger could also fit the bill for long range performance and longer barrel life.

338 RCM? I like the idea.

I'll use 1 mph wind as a reference to being off on 1 mph of estimating wind (even with a meter) say it's 12 mph but you call it 11 or 13 mpg.

doing the calculations a mistake of 1 mph wind at 90 deg the 7mm 180 hybrid at 3050 fps has 5.1" inches of drift off at 1000 yards

the 230 OTM from a 300 wm at 2700 fps would be 5.5" off at 1000

The 215 IOTM from a 300 wm at 2900 fps is 5.2" off at 1000 yards

The 300 OTM from a 338 RCM at 2550 fps is 5.3" off at 1000 yards

Yes it favors quite well with the others. 5.3 inch off is 5.3 off either left or right, add the group size in, and hitting a 16 inch steel plate may not be that easy till you walk the shots in. I'm sure your 338 RCM 30 in bbl has more speed than the avg 20-24 inch most guys have. sounds like you know your stuff.

For referral, the 308 launching a 175 SMK at 2600 fps is 9.8 inches off (1 mph mistake) cleanly missing the 16" steel plat that is 8 inches from center.

The 284 launching Hybrid 180's at 2800 fps is 5.9" drift at 1000, pretty good for a non barrel burner, but your 338 RCM has it beat.

 

[Trickymissfit]

The 6.5-06 would be a good starting point. Honestly the 6BR in a 1:8 twist barrel will surprise you, and that barrel will last forever. The 7mm WSM ought to be a good one as well. Then there's the .280 Remington, that's not to be over looked!

If you shoot mostly in the six hundred yard range, then look no further than the 6BR. It'll push a 107 grain bullet to an honest 2800, and that bullet carries a .52 B/C.
gary

 

[MudRunner2005]

I'm sorry if I offended you about the 6.5x284 and 7mm mags, I absolutely love hard hitting flat shooting guns like the 6.5x284, heck the 6.5 Sherman, 264 win and 6.5 WSM mag seems perfect for that caliber the 7mm STW or allen mag.
All my bolt guns are fast hard hitting, 300 win mag, 25-06 and 204 (it's fast and flat shooting anyways)

For hunting the 6.5-284 or 6.5 Sherman or 6.5-06 would be great, a little flatter and faster than a 6.5-55 or 260 rem, but then again the later will kill deer and elk also out to 1000 yards. the 7 mag is hard to beat, a 180 Berger at 3000 fps.. not much is better.

I want something that is mainly target, but I can hunt with sometimes.
Even a 308 will work, it has the power of a 357 Magnum at muzzle at 1000 yards. But something that bucks the wind better might be easier to hit with, the wind can be tricky, so something that has 48 inches of drift vs 26 inches can help.
It is not hard to put 400-500 rounds down the barrel through a years time. and in 3 years the accuracy goes from consistent 1/2 moa to sometimes 1/2 moa and poi change.. Then plunk down $400--$600 for a barrel, wait many months for a smith to ream it, and put in on the action for another
$200-$300. Some of the gunsmiths around here have a year wait till they can get to your gun.

This is the reason I want to leave my fast flat shooting guns to hunting, and get a dedicate target (and sometimes hunting) rifle, that weighs around 10-12 lbs and lasts for 5-8 years or more.

I've thought about a 284 with 30 inch bbl in 8.5 twist, I've heard of people getting 3000 fps from 284 and 180 Berger's using Re-17 and 30-32 inch bbl.
It's on the edge, but 2800 fps should be easy from a 28 inch, just 200 fps slower than a 7rm and lasts 3 times longer.
a good compromise of long range and a non barrel burner.

I've been thinking of re barreling my 300 wm tro 7 rm. but now since Berger has the 215 OTM and 230 OTM's, the 30's are alive again the 215 has a (696 bc) almost .7bc and the 230 OTM is .743 bc. but Berger has a 195 7mm in the works. So the7mm is hard to beat

If you don't have a big hard-hitting 7mm, the STW is right up your alley. Also, the Berger 180 Hybrid has a .674 BC and expands like nothing I've ever seen before (on YouTube videos, of course)...They are new to me, so I will be using them on deer this year moving around 2850 out of my 7RM using 7828 SSC powder. Should be a nasty combo!

I bought them for my 7mm STW, but I figure using a few for load development and hunting will be fine.

Also, the 6.5 Sherman is pretty intense with the Berger 140 VLD's from what I have read. Can't wait to get mine up and going.

 

[royinidaho]

Gonna chime in and support AZShooter's position.

I shoot, when I'm serious about bringing home the meat, a sporter weight 338 RUM. Pushing the 300 Berger only 235 FPS faster that what the 338 RCM is doing.

Shooting out a barrel in either chambering would take some intense work.

Having a 1000 yard rifle and a 1000 yard rifle that will harvest a big game animal it two different breeds of cat.

My 338 RUM is limited to 880 yards only due to the Mil Dot reticle and silly 1/8th MOA clicks. Way too many clicks to keep track of in hunting situations, for me.

Come to think of it I've never heard of a 338 anything having been shot out. I suppose this excludes the extreme magnums based on the cheetah cartridge.

 

[AZShooter]

Thanks for the compliments everyone. It is kind of nutty but it works. It doesn't seem like it has much of anything but it does. Here are some stats from a JBM program for 4000 ft where I deer hunt:

4339 ft/lb at muzzle. 2985 ft/lb at 575 yds

Drift in 10 mph crosswind at 500 yd 8.7"

Mudrunner:

I had Dan Pederson of classic barrel works rerifle/rechamber and thread plus crown for around $240 IIRC. That 30" #7 profile 7mm barrel was close to $400 IIRC so I saved money compared to ordering a new one. Besides I got a 1 in 9 twist at no extra charge. It might shoot the 300s with the standard 1 in 10 but when I could switch twist why not?

I have three fluted SS liljas from 27" to 29" that will eventually see Dan's shop. One is a 300 RUM that will become a 338 EDGE, not sure what to do with the 257 and 7mm when they quit shooting.

Here are two pics of the long throated 338 RCM. Stock is a Joel Russo laminate:

 

[scottyd2506]

Thanks for the compliments everyone. It is kind of nutty but it works. It doesn't seem like it has much of anything but it does. Here are some stats from a JBM program for 4000 ft where I deer hunt:

4339 ft/lb at muzzle. 2985 ft/lb at 575 yds

Drift in 10 mph crosswind at 500 yd 8.7"

Mudrunner:

I had Dan Pederson of classic barrel works rerifle/rechamber and thread plus crown for around $240 IIRC. That 30" #7 profile 7mm barrel was close to $400 IIRC so I saved money compared to ordering a new one. Besides I got a 1 in 9 twist at no extra charge. It might shoot the 300s with the standard 1 in 10 but when I could switch twist why not?

I have three fluted SS liljas from 27" to 29" that will eventually see Dan's shop. One is a 300 RUM that will become a 338 EDGE, not sure what to do with the 257 and 7mm when they quit shooting.

I have no doubt it works, most 308's shoot 175's at 2600 fps, my Ar-10 shoots 175's at 2600, my friend's Rem 700 SPS shoots 175's at 2550-2575 fps.
that is with a .496 BC(.505 BC if faster) SMK, so a Berger 300 grn OTM at .818 BC and 2550 fps is PLENTY.
love to have one built. Have a M70 win in 300 mag that would love to have a 30 inch .338 RCM on it.

a 338x325 WSM would be another idea

Are the dies and brass hard to get? and reamer?

 

[MudRunner2005]

Mudrunner:

I had Dan Pederson of classic barrel works rerifle/rechamber and thread plus crown for around $240 IIRC. That 30" #7 profile 7mm barrel was close to $400 IIRC so I saved money compared to ordering a new one. Besides I got a 1 in 9 twist at no extra charge. It might shoot the 300s with the standard 1 in 10 but when I could switch twist why not?

I have three fluted SS liljas from 27" to 29" that will eventually see Dan's shop. One is a 300 RUM that will become a 338 EDGE, not sure what to do with the 257 and 7mm when they quit shooting.

Cool! Thanks for the info.

Yeah, I might have my .25-06 AI Sendero SF barrel bored to a 5R 6.5 1:8 barrel when I burn it out.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Cool! Thanks for the info.

Yeah, I might have my .25-06 AI Sendero SF barrel bored to a 5R 6.5 1:8 barrel when I burn it out.

You'll probably want more than .007 bored out and I would be surprised if he has 5R rifling, maybe he does?

 

[MudRunner2005]

You'll probably want more than .007 bored out and I would be surprised if he has 5R rifling, maybe he does?

Worst case scenario I bore it to .284 1:9 and use it for a .280 AI.

 

[Jcub]

I was pretty much in your boat 3 months ago. For me personally, the best choice was the .280 AI. I was enamored with the 7mm bullets' coefficients, that's why I chose what I did, great barrel life, uses high bc bullets, can still push a 168 gr at 2800 fps from a 24" bbl. I chose a #5 contour. I'm very pleased with my rifle, it shoots good groups and I can load it down to 120 gr bullet moving at 3350 fps. I've never run across someone who had anything bad to say about the .280 Ack. Take it for what it is, a great hunting rifle with just a little bit more oomph than it's original, good bbl life, but don't try to turn it into a STW, because it's not that fast but will definitely shoot to 1000 meters.

 

[AZShooter]

338 RCM reamer can be purchased from Pacific Tool and Gauge where I got mine. It uses the exact dimensions that Ruger and Hornady specified. I know because I talked to the now retired Lonny at Hornady and we compared our specification sheets.

I got the reamer before I made the long throated version and made a 7 lb sporter on an old M77 tang safety. Dan Pederson used a 338 throating reamer to lengthen the throat. You could make a dummy round and send it to Dave Kiff at PT&G for a long throated reamer. Cost is around $140.

As for dies. Redding and Hornady makes them. I had issues with both dies not sizing the area near the web. Redding's was worse. That is how I got to talk to Lonnie. I finally sent in some fired rounds and had Whidden make me a custom S bushing/FL die that works better than the other productions dies. Can't remember the cost.....

 

[aramarine6]

I read thru and maybe I missed it. What is your definition of a "barrel burner"? How many rounds would you like to get out of your barrel? Because your definition might be different from alot of the posters. At least it is to me? Any cartridge that gives me less than 2,000 rounds is a burner. Is powder consumption and reloading components a factor for you? Look at the efficiency of the cartridge(powder charge to velocity). 260 rem vs 6.5-284. One has a clear performance advantage but at what cost? IMO the 260 remington is the best non magnum cartridge if you plan on shooting at distance alot. For magnum calibers I'd look into the 338's. I own a custom 338 RUM and I'll never own a different magnum cartridge.

 

[scottyd2506]

I read thru and maybe I missed it. What is your definition of a "barrel burner"? How many rounds would you like to get out of your barrel? Because your definition might be different from alot of the posters. At least it is to me? Any cartridge that gives me less than 2,000 rounds is a burner. Is powder consumption and reloading components a factor for you? Look at the efficiency of the cartridge(powder charge to velocity). 260 rem vs 6.5-284. One has a clear performance advantage but at what cost? IMO the 260 remington is the best non magnum cartridge if you plan on shooting at distance alot. For magnum calibers I'd look into the 338's. I own a custom 338 RUM and I'll never own a different magnum cartridge.

I'm thinking 338 win mag, 338-325 WSM or most likely a strait 284 win with a 30 inch tube in 1:8 twist, with Re-17 people are getting 2950 fps at the 180 Berger.
Have it built on the new Berger 195 EOL .792 BC at 2750-2800 fps should be great, and last well over 2500 rounds 47.8 in drift at 1000 yards with a 10 mph wind.
Burning only around 50-51 grns of powder, and can get Lapua brass.

Need to find a used doner rifle (old 30-06 Rem 700. Savage 110 M70 etc) as my m70 300 wm bolt face will not work.