7 PRC SAAMI approved

[CMP70306]

I didn't say the first 2 cartridges were better, only that they weren't improved upon.
Basic reading comprehension brother..

It was 4:55 am, I got 5 hours of sleep and was typing quick while heading offshore tuna fishing so perhaps "better" was not the best word to use.

Your wording was "basically zero improvement over the .260 Rem", if that's the case then why didn't it take off like the Creedmoor did despite the 10 year head start? Remington dropped the ball by sticking with a 9 twist and hunting focused so Hornady picked it up and ran with it as a faster twist target cartridge.

For the 6.5-284 it was predated by the .256 Newton, the 6.5-06, the .264 Win Mag and the 6.5 Remington Magnum all launching 140gr bullets around 3000 fps. However outside of handloaders and custom rifles the 6.5-284 never really had wide spread acceptance. There was also the 6.5 SAUM and the 6.5 WSM which were more recent and had every opportunity to beat the 6.5 PRC yet Remington nor Winchester offered them leaving the door wide open for the 6.5 PRC.

The parts about Hornady "Instead of tweaking existing cartridges" & "they simply made their own" are absolutely false and hilarious at the same time, If anyone worth their salt knew anything about "existing cartridges" they would never make such a bold, ignorant claim.... and I mean that as in straight up front, hard facts & not a rib

ALL of Hornady's "modern marvels" are versions of existing cartridges and one in particular, is a pirated version of a 20 year old propriety cartridge, minor tweaking of case dims & viola .... Hornady cartridges all suffer from "pre-existing conditions" truth .....

Manufactures using other cartridges, changing some dimensions and calling it their own is nothing new and there are a laundry list of cartridges that were created as wildcats before being adopted by a major manufacturer decades later. Remington alone did the .22-250, 6mm, 25-06, 260, 7mm-08, 280, among a number of others I can't think of at this moment and am too tired to look up. Go back even farther to the beginning of cartridge ammunition and you have companies like Winchester, Remington and Sharps offering the exact same cartridge with their name on it and a slightly different black powder designation despite being identical cases.

For "make their own" I was referring to Saami approval and wide spread acceptance of a cartridge they submitted, when it comes to modern cartridge designs very little is actually new. As for tweaking existing cartridges I meant offering an already existing cartridge loaded to the same specs as the ones they introduced I.e. reviving the 6.5 Remington Magnum or .30 Newton with long heavy bullets in a fast twist barrel instead of creating the 6.5 PRC or .300 PRC.

The performance of the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC and .300 PRC can all be duplicated by a number of cartridges that have existed for decades if not over a century. The 6.5x55 Swede has been shooting 140gr bullets at 2700 fps since 1894, the .256 Newton was shooting 140gr bullets at 3000 fps since 1913 and had the .30 Newton had the powder available today and a fast twist barrel I'm sure it would have been able to match the .300 PRC since they have almost the same capacity. Heck I was duplicating the .300 PRC with my .300 Win Mag years before it was introduced.

If Remington hadn't dropped the ball on the .260 and the 6.5 SAUM and Nosler had actually improved the .30 Nosler by offering it factory standard with a 3.6" COAL and faster twist instead of just being a beltless win mag the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC and .300 PRC wouldn't exist today. They didn't, Hornady did and now their options are more popular and seem to be holding that way for the foreseeable future.

 

[Tralle]

It is very similar to the 7mm blaser mag.
It is ~ 0.04" shorter to the shoulder and it got a shorter neck than the blaser.

 

[IHFarmer07]

The reason for all these "new and improved" saami cartridges maybe because in order to give what people want without having custom work done to improve an existing cartridge with a slower twist rate which already has factory ammo made with that saami spec in mind. I guess once the saami spec is there it's probably pretty hard to revise for a faster twist rate and then the bullet manufacturers have to revise the loads on their end. People talk about why not use the ol tried and true ….., well those cartridges don't have the bullet/rifle/twist rate section that most off the shelf people want without having custom mods done.

All Hornady is doing is giving people what they want in factory loaded cartridges…..capabilities to shoot heavy bullets, which in factory configuration sells to WAY more people than any of the foremost cartridges said.
Everyone is about bc and using monos anymore so when someone common goes to buy a gun they probably also look at the selection of bullets available. Faster twist rates still shoot lighter bullet but slower twist rates won't do well with some of today's heavy for caliber bullets. I understand why Hornady does what it does……never seen 7mm blazer or 7lrm ammo or guns sold near me in the local gun shops. Hornady is smart, filling in the heavy for caliber nitch THAT SELLS NOWADAYS with supporting rifling rates.

 

[jessej]

Kings of marketing hype.

I have a good friend that only uses his sixfive wonder cartridge when he's trophy hunting and not concerned with meat loss.
He uses his trusty 30-06 when filling the freezer. .

My perception whether right or wrong…..
It's much easier to produce high BC factory ammo that shoots great in inexpensive factory rifles IF said cartridge is is propelling its projectile down range at a modest velocity.

 

[Harry Knutz]

Kings of marketing hype.

I have a good friend that only uses his sixfive wonder cartridge when he's trophy hunting and not concerned with meat loss.
He uses his trusty 30-06 when filling the freezer. .

My perception whether right or wrong…..
It's much easier to produce high BC factory ammo that shoots great in inexpensive factory rifles IF said cartridge is is propelling its projectile down range at a modest velocity.

Yes, Hornady had the better marketing approach. Speer makes some good bullets too, But if they would develop some new more modern bullets and have an aggressive marketing campaign like Hornady did, Their bullets wouldn't be selling for $23.00 a box and in stock much of the time. I see they have updated the look of their boxes, Just like Hornady did, But that only goes so far.

 

[jpndave]

I must admit I am warming up to this design. Initially I was disappointed isn't longer, closer to the 7 LRM, but after looking at dimensions/capacity/ratios, it is landing right where the 6.5 PRC & 300 PRC & 6mm Creedmoor (which is more inline with PRC than Creed in performance) land. That is, heaviest for caliber bullets approaching 3,000 fps which seems to be a sweet spot before the performance per grains of powder starts nosing off more sharply.

The recurring complaint seems to be that there are other cartridges that can me made to do the same thing. That is certainly true. However none of them do it across the board with any rifle and any ammo. An individual can make a rifle and a load that duplicate or exceed the performance but you aren't just buying that and shooting it. You aren't going to buy ammo off the shelf and get that performance. The combination of a well balanced, accurate designed from the start, efficient "magnum" that is in an approved and common template, with full factory support, not proprietary, and yes, effective advertising, is unique and a recipe for success. I am fine doing a one off custom and loading my own. Most are not wanting to do that. Plus the added availability of quality brass is a huge plus. The more components and support out there the better.

I have moved away from a one rifle 7mm to a 6.5 Creed + 300 PRC quiver. If I did a 7mm, this would be it.

 

[gregsjt]

Kings of marketing hype.

It's funny how everyone says that like its the only reason hornady's offerings are successful. Yet everyone on this site builds custom rifles and ammo to do exactly what they're cartridges do. The 6.5x284 was a pretty successful cartridge developed by long range shooters that wanted to use heavy high bc bullets at decent velocity. But if you wanted one you had to build a custom rifle and ammo. Was it marketing hype that it was successful? Or was it successful because it worked? Is the 6.5 PRC successful because of marketing hype or is it successful because now everyone can get 6.5x284 performance from factory rifles and ammo?

 

[jessej]

I'm not sayin the marketing is a bad thing. Their timing was great also. Seems they turned it on just as the normal hunting population fell in love with "long range".

I'm an uncommon man, and I like to do uncommon things. I'm goin huntin this weekend, and I can almost 100 percent guarantee that the only person I'll see, came with me. You see, there's very very few people that enjoy hangin out with big toothy creatures, creatures that would love to take a bite out of you while you're tryin to shoot the same critters that they are tryin to eat. All On a single breath. If in the future this hunting ground becomes to crowded, I'll find a new hobby.
Sorry for the derail op.

Meh, doesn't excite me. I'm lookin for WOW.

With today's technology, advanced materials, and machine capability, why haven't we produced a case that can be fired at 100kpsi from an action half the weight that's available now, reloaded 25 times, reaching speeds of 3500-4000 fps with projectiles that have a g1 of over .700?
From an 8 lb rifle with a 22" barrel.

 

[jpndave]

It's funny how everyone says that like its the only reason hornady's offerings are successful. Yet everyone on this site builds custom rifles and ammo to do exactly what they're cartridges do. The 6.5x284 was a pretty successful cartridge developed by long range shooters that wanted to use heavy high bc bullets at decent velocity. But if you wanted one you had to build a custom rifle and ammo. Was it marketing hype that it was successful? Or was it successful because it worked? Is the 6.5 PRC successful because of marketing hype or is it successful because now everyone can get 6.5x284 performance from factory rifles and ammo?

"Hype" or just marketing? Is Hornady claiming anything that isn't true? How does this additional cartridge/component/rifle availability hurt anyone even if you want something different?

 

[rharfo]

Long time reloader, love custom or high end rifles. So do I use my current 7 rem mag components and have one built with 1-8 twist or do I buy the new 7 PRC? Love my 6.5 PRC,308, 280AI old version, my 2 -260 rem with 1/8 twist, and 300 Win Mag.
Like the ballistics of a 7 with 180-195 bullets, but also love the 30 call hole in my animal from the win mag. Hmmmm

 

[jessej]

Long time reloader, love custom or high end rifles. So do I use my current 7 rem mag components and have one built with 1-8 twist or do I buy the new 7 PRC? Love my 6.5 PRC,308, 280AI old version, my 2 -260 rem with 1/8 twist, and 300 Win Mag.
Like the ballistics of a 7 with 180-195 bullets, but also love the 30 call hole in my animal from the win mag. Hmmmm

Like me. To many hobbies, not enough time.

 

[jessej]

One of the definitions of hype is "to promote extravagantly ".
I DO NOT believe Hornady is claiming anything that isn't true.

How does this additional cartridge/component/rifle availability hurt anyone even if you want something different?

It does not hurt. The availability of quality ammo at affordable prices in less expensive factory rifles helps a lot of people who don't reload or have access to expensive custom rifles, hit targets farther.

 

[chutinlead]

The reason for all these "new and improved" saami cartridges maybe because in order to give what people want without having custom work done to improve an existing cartridge with a slower twist rate which already has factory ammo made with that saami spec in mind. I guess once the saami spec is there it's probably pretty hard to revise for a faster twist rate and then the bullet manufacturers have to revise the loads on their end. People talk about why not use the ol tried and true ….., well those cartridges don't have the bullet/rifle/twist rate section that most off the shelf people want without having custom mods done.

All Hornady is doing is giving people what they want in factory loaded cartridges…..capabilities to shoot heavy bullets, which in factory configuration sells to WAY more people than any of the foremost cartridges said.
Everyone is about bc and using monos anymore so when someone common goes to buy a gun they probably also look at the selection of bullets available. Faster twist rates still shoot lighter bullet but slower twist rates won't do well with some of today's heavy for caliber bullets. I understand why Hornady does what it does……never seen 7mm blazer or 7lrm ammo or guns sold near me in the local gun shops. Hornady is smart, filling in the heavy for caliber nitch THAT SELLS NOWADAYS with supporting rifling rates.

It's not like it is stopping anyone from putting a fast twist barrel on their old rifle. If the only thing it does is encourage them to make heavier and better bullets for their new cartridge, I can't wait.

It has been hell trying to find heavy 7mm bullets the last couple of years and hopefully, this pushes all the ammo manufacturers to build 160-190gr bullets and keep them on the shelves.

 

[Deleted member 109523]

Hornady does what it does……never seen 7mm blazer or 7lrm ammo or guns sold near me in the local gun shops.

You won't see 7 blazer, 7lrm, and many other other wildcatters cartridges (that are better), and that have paved the way for this miracle, because they don't have the money to pay saami off. It suck when there's only one organization that can approve stuff. pretty much a monopoly. who ever has the most money, Can make the most money. I'm not whining. I'm just saying if there were two or three more approval organizations out there, the people that have paved the way could get there deserved piece of the pie, If they wanted it.

Saami ammo comes in a box at a specific length. Not your own custom length. My good friend has a new browning X bolt in a 300 PRC that won't shoot any factory ammo to under 2 moa at 1K. I took his rifle, and with very little load development, I had it shooting 1 moa. It may be great marketing, but it will turn into hype very soon, by the popular crowd. Everything these days are played with popularity in mind.
I can see the life style influencers now. Don't suffer the embarrassment and insecurity that comes with owning a measly 7RM, 7SAUM, OR WSM.