Because Burgers are time proven meat shredders. IF they expand.
The farther the pack trip back out, the more apt I am to use a Burger. Less salvagable meat, and weight, in the pack.
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300 Norma vs 300 Norma Imp
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The farther the pack trip back out, the more apt I am to use a Burger. Less salvagable meat, and weight, in the pack.
How many animals have you personally harvested with various Berger bullets?
I've been killing animals from antelope to bull elk since 2006 with Berger bullets in 6.5, 30, and 338 cal. I have never had an issue with excessive meat damage. I will admit that the 215gr in 30 cal is kind of explosive but I still get complete pass thru with on large mule deer so it penetrates and kills very well. I started using the 220gr now with better results on meat damage over the 215 but I wouldn't say the 215 was horrible on meat damage by any means.
Never once in dozens of animals have I ever had an issue with penetration on any Berger I have actually taken animals with personally. I know there's debate out there, but in my last 14 seasons of taking animals with Berger, I have never once had a single bullet that failed to harvest an animal for me and do it very well.
Had I only shot an animal or two or just read on the internet about Berger failures like most trash talkers do, maybe I'd still be skeptical. But after 14 years and dozens of animals, I have to say most of the failure stories are BS. Whether it's people having too much pride to admit they made a bad shot or what, I don't know. I have read many bad things about the 7mm 195gr bullet, but I haven't used it personally so I'm not gonna say anything about it. What I do know is that the Berger 140gr in 6.5, 215, 220, and 230 in 30 cal, and 250 in 338 are all excellent performers on any game North America has to offer. So to say Berger bullets don't penetrate or cause excessive meat damage in general is a completely false statement
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Rick Richard
Well-Known Member
Drop the mic. on that.
LeddSlinger,
The ones that fail to expand penetrate really well. Through and through. While the game animal runs off.
The ones that do expand shred meat.
210gr .308 VLDs and 168gr .284 VLDs, 215gr .308 Hybrids, and 300gr .338 OTMs, by my own personal experience. Do I have countless experiences? No. I'd be delinquent to continue using them based on my early experiences. Others have contacted me similar experiences.
You've been blessed. Hope your Burger good fortune continues.
The ones that fail to expand penetrate really well. Through and through. While the game animal runs off.
The ones that do expand shred meat.
210gr .308 VLDs and 168gr .284 VLDs, 215gr .308 Hybrids, and 300gr .338 OTMs, by my own personal experience. Do I have countless experiences? No. I'd be delinquent to continue using them based on my early experiences. Others have contacted me similar experiences.
You've been blessed. Hope your Burger good fortune continues.
Huntnful
Well-Known Member
Caribou heart from a 28 NOS 180 VLD at 330 yards. That's a lot of "meat" damage lol.
Also watched my buddy shoot his bull from 300 yards with an accubond right through the pump house, it took two steps AND THEN KEPT FEEDING haha. I have it on video lol. Animals know when they get hit a berger. There's no doubt about that.
In all honesty, they do hammer meat, if placed where there is meat to be hammered. Stay off the shoulder and they turn vitals into complete soup with no meat damage.
Also watched my buddy shoot his bull from 300 yards with an accubond right through the pump house, it took two steps AND THEN KEPT FEEDING haha. I have it on video lol. Animals know when they get hit a berger. There's no doubt about that.
In all honesty, they do hammer meat, if placed where there is meat to be hammered. Stay off the shoulder and they turn vitals into complete soup with no meat damage.
Not sure what's going on there. I've had nothing but excellent results. Even with shoulder shots I don't damage meat nearly as bad as I have with other traditional "hunting" bullets back before I started using Berger. I wish I could say it was just luck, but I've shot too many animals now to call it that. They just flat out perform better than any other bullet I've used.
Below is a mule deer buck I shot last year with the 220gr from my 300 NMI at 650 yards. (shoulder and back strap removed in photo for packingHe was quartering hard facing me. Hit him in the left side of the chest and found the bullet jacket right under the hide on the far right side at the back of the rib cage. No core, but jacket was perfectly pedaled out like how a bonded hunting bullet is designed to do. Virtually no meat damage or blood shot around the entrance or exit under the hide. His vitals were turned into complete gelatin. My wife, son, and I all shot a mule deer buck with that rifle and those bullets last year. All perfect performances.
This is what I have seen again and again with Berger bullets so many times now that if I didn't log every animal I killed in a book, I would have lost count. And that's not counting all of the many animals my father in law, son, and other friends and family members have taken with Berger bullets. All nothing but excellent results over the years.
The 215gr does expand a little more violently than some other Berger bullets I've used, but it's not what I would call "bad" by any means. The photo below this paragraph is the buck I shot a couple years ago using the 215 from my 300 NMI. Entrance is the smaller hole and exit the larger.
Shot him right thru the shoulders and although the 215 is tougher on meat than the 220, I still salvaged plenty of meat from both shoulders. The entrance hole in the photo is under the shoulder in the rib cage (front shoulder removed) so that's the size of the hole after completely penetrating thru the entire shoulder.
And as usual, his vitals were soup. Shot other deer with the 215 that year as well with same results.
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Huntnful
Well-Known Member
Beautiful Terminal performance for sure. If I'm not shooting copper, I'm without a doubt shooting bergers. Trying to round up some 220's, but they're nowhere in sight right now.
Huntnful
Well-Known Member
I will play a little devil's advocate here though. This is the ENTRANCE side shoulder, which the bullet barely touched, from a 7mm 180 VLD Hunt at 600 yards. The buck never took a step, and you can see why. There were no traces of fragments in the offside anywhere. But, I deemed these too explosive and switched the 180 VLD targets for the thicker jackets.
BUT, I'll take meat damage and a stone dead buck over a track job any day.
BUT, I'll take meat damage and a stone dead buck over a track job any day.
Not all caliber and weight Bergers I've used will completely pass thru, just depends on the animal and shot angle. But in my experience they always have plenty of penetration of 4"-6" on any tough muscle or bone before delivering violent rapid expansion that completely destroys vitals. Which is exactly what they've always been designed to do. Berger has never built a hunting bullet with the intentions of it passing thru the animal. They consider that lost energy and the purpose of their design is to deliver full energy for maximum knockdown power. Just happens that some bullets at fast speeds will pass thru. But those usually aren't the models designed for hunting.
I actually like it better not getting a pass thru sometimes because thats just less meat damage on the other side.
Huntnful
Well-Known Member
Yes sir, totally agree! My elk scenario is the only scenario that had we thinking a pass through would be nice, and he still only took 5 steps, but was alive for 45 seconds. But no deer sized game is stomaching a 180+ berger at 3,000+MV and taking too many steps.
Yeah and if you don't like them taking any steps or even having a chance to take another single breath, take the high shoulder shot with the Berger. Dead on the spot before they can even blink and hit the ground so hard it looks like a 10 ton dump truck fell on top of them.
I really wish everyone believed that 215 hybrids don't kill well. My stash is down to several hundred and I could use more. Send me all of those penciling exploding Berger's. I will give them a good home. It's a pointless debate in my opinion. Shoot what you like, leave the Berger's to those of us that have special magic to make them work.
Kyle
Kyle
