300 Norma vs 300 Norma Imp

[LeddSlinger]

Thank you for the very informative replies! Now, if one would put accuracy first, above sheer speed as the motivation for looking at this caliber - would you still choose the 300 NMI -or- the standard version, or a simpler cartridge as the 300 PRC?(sticking to 30 cal magnums)

Accuracy is relative to the rifle and person. The NMI is as accurate as anything else if you use quality rifle build components, quality bullets/brass, are good at loading/tuning ammo, and have good shooting skills.

If you don't care about speed, might as well save some money by not having to purchase a Lapua size action and shoot a round with less punch.

 

[Gamesniper19]

I have a 7mm - 300 NM Imp I made with GA Precision. Necked the 300 down to 7mm obviously to make IMO is the king of the 7mm hunting rounds. GAP Templar action, 195 berger at 3170 and can easily go faster with a longer barrel and a higher node, use Peterson brass and CCI 250 primers. I built it for hunting and I care about speed and about accuracy. Both matter on critters. It is an accurate and inherently efficient round. The U.S. would have done well to run this instead of the PRC.

I have seen terminal performance on elk first hand. Double lung shot - took 4 steps and dropped.

It is actually up for sale on the site. I am ready to build something else and the rule is "gotta make room in the safe"

 

[wasskeet]

Maybe I should have worded that a little different. Let's simplify - of the 300 PRC, 300 NM and 300 NMI - all components being equal. Would you say the 300 NMI is inherently more accurate? Less finicky to keep shooting well?

 

[Gamesniper19]

Maybe I should have worded that a little different. Let's simplify - of the 300 PRC, 300 NM and 300 NMI - all components being equal. Would you say the 300 NMI is inherently more accurate? Less finicky to keep shooting well?

IME - more accurate? Not sure you can call any rifle "more accurate" A 1/4 min gun is a 1/4 min gun
More efficient, better ballistics with longer high BC bullets at ELR ranges, better design and shoot-ability, and way less finicky - the 300 NM and NMI are hands down better
Hornady didn't have a 300 of their own. Since the 30 Nos was taken with the 404 parent case and the 300 NM was taken with the 416 Rigby parent case, this is all they had and in true Hornady fashion they have done an amazing job promoting and supporting it; as well as using their political connections to gain contract

 

[LeddSlinger]

Maybe I should have worded that a little different. Let's simplify - of the 300 PRC, 300 NM and 300 NMI - all components being equal. Would you say the 300 NMI is inherently more accurate? Less finicky to keep shooting well?

You can read for days on how accurate the standard 300 Norma and NMI are as well as the other rounds so long as you are using quality brass from Lapua or ADG. I know a lot of people who have tested many bullets. Berger is the consensus for the best accuracy. No matter how hard any of us tried using Sierra or Hornady bullets, Berger always ended up edging out the competition for overall accuracy.

As far as "keeping" it shooting accurately, that boils down to the powder you are using and your ability analyze nodes in ladder testing and to keep a rifle in tune. If you're shooting an accurate load that has a very tight node window then it will be tougher to maintain accuracy as the lands retreats from wear. If you tune the load into a good wide node then life is a lot easier. Quality powders like H1000 and N570 also make life easier to maintain accuracy because they are very good at staying consistent across a wide variation of temperatures and weather conditions.

Is the NMI as easy to shoot and tune as a 6PPC or 6BR? No, and no large magnum will ever be that easy to shoot. But as far as big magnums go, the NMI is very accurate and forgiving with powders like H1000 and N570

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Maybe I should have worded that a little different. Let's simplify - of the 300 PRC, 300 NM and 300 NMI - all components being equal. Would you say the 300 NMI is inherently more accurate? Less finicky to keep shooting well?

No it is not less finicky or easier to tune. In almost anything the larger the case, the less accurate it will be as a general rule. The most accurate, easiest tuning .30 is probably a 30BR. You would have a hard time making a .30br shoot much bigger than .3". But that would be a poor choice for hunting. Step up to the 1000 yd BR game or F class and the 300 wsm is on top for 30s. The bigger 300s were more popular in the past but the guys figured out the smaller wsm case was just more accurate day in day out, it agged better. So when you take a large case and make it even larger, dont expect to gain accuracy. If the design is good, like the 300 nmi, then you may not see it fall off much if any. Theres a handful of us that play around with these big cases in heavy bench guns. I have built a good amount of heavy BR rifles in 300 nmi, 338 and 300 lapua imps. Those big cases will not stand up with a 300 wsm shooting groups at 1k. They still shoot really good and Im not talking a huge difference. However, shooting 3 shot groups from a hunting rifle your unlikely to notice the difference in a lot of these cases. My 300 PRC has agged in the 3" range for the last four cold bore 3 shot groups fired at 1k. I have had 300NMI shoot as good or better, that comes down to barrel quality. So I guess the answer Im giving you is that yes, in the right rifles you would see a small accuracy drop as you go bigger and bigger. But in the rifles we shoot for lr hunting and elr you will not shoot the difference between a PRC and NMI, and I know both are capable of sub 3" 3 shot groups at 1k and most guys will never get them tuned to their potential. They all offer more accuracy them most will extract. The 300 NMI is still my personal favorite of the big 30s.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

One other point to make. I would say there is not a person that has had a pile of barrels in each of these calibers on a heavy BR rifle. Thats what it would take to give you a solid answer. And they are not used in BR so we cant look at averages from competition. If a guy gets a rifle with a really good barrel he'll be convinced its an easy to tune cartridge. If you get a so-so barrel he will be convinced its a finicky cartridge. So much of what your going to read is just opinions.

 

[LeddSlinger]

IME - more accurate? Not sure you can call any rifle "more accurate" A 1/4 min gun is a 1/4 min gun
More efficient, better ballistics with longer high BC bullets at ELR ranges, better design and shoot-ability, and way less finicky - the 300 NM and NMI are hands down better
Hornady didn't have a 300 of their own. Since the 30 Nos was taken with the 404 parent case and the 300 NM was taken with the 416 Rigby parent case, this is all they had and in true Hornady fashion they have done an amazing job promoting and supporting it; as well as using their political connections to gain contract

The 300 PRC is derived from necking down the 375 Ruger case which was also developed by Hornady and has been around for quite some time now. The 6.5 PRC is just a shortened necked down 375 Ruger. Though the 300 PRC is very slightly smaller than the Nosler Jeffrey cases, it is very close in performance. PRC will push 215gr Berger to 3100 fps just like the Nosler.

I run the 375 Ruger necked down to 338 cal (338-375 Ruger) for a long time. Long before the PRCs came into being. It can hit over 3000 fps with 250gr Berger bullets from a 26" barrel and very accurate. So rounds based on the 375 Ruger case are no slouches by any means especially when you consider that factory ammo for the 338 Lapua using 250gr bullets is listed at 2850 fps. And now with ADG and Lapua making PRC brass, the 300 PRC or variants from that case are a good choice for a powerful and accurate long range round.

Here is a photo of my 338-375 Ruger case necked up and fireformed compared to a virgin piece of ADG 300 PRC brass on the left that I use to make the rounds.

 

[Gamesniper19]

The 300 PRC is derived from necking down the 375 Ruger case which was also developed by Hornady and has been around for quite some time now. The 6.5 PRC is just a shortened necked down 375 Ruger. Though the 300 PRC is very slightly smaller than the Nosler Jeffrey cases, it is very close in performance. PRC will push 215gr Berger to 3100 fps just like the Nosler.

I run the 375 Ruger necked down to 338 cal (338-375 Ruger) for a long time. Long before the PRCs came into being. It can hit over 3000 fps with 250gr Berger bullets from a 26" barrel and very accurate. So rounds based on the 375 Ruger case are no slouches by any means. And now with ADG and Lapua making brass, the 300 PRC or variants from that case are a good choice for a powerful and accurate long range round

Case capacity matters. The NM and NMi will always outperform the PRC. Always.

 

[LeddSlinger]

And here is a photo of my 300 NMI compared to a piece of virgin Lapua 300 Norma brass on the left

 

[LeddSlinger]

Case capacity matters. The NM and NMi will always outperform the PRC. Always.

Obviously. All I am saying is that they are not slow rounds by any means and deliver far more than enough energy for any North American game animals and excellent accuracy for long range target shooting.

If a person already had a long action with a magnum bolt face ready to use and didn't want to purchase a new action to accommodate the Lapua size Norma rounds, then the 300 PRC or Nosler based rounds are still an excellent choice.

I own rifles based on both the Norma and PRC cases so I know first hand just how well they perform with all kinds of different bullets and powders

 

[Gamesniper19]

Obviously. All I am saying is that they are not slow rounds by any means and deliver far more than enough energy for any North American game animals and excellent accuracy for long range target shooting.

If a person already had a long action with a magnum bolt face ready to use and didn't want to purchase a new action to accommodate the Lapua size Norma rounds, then the 300 PRC or Nosler based rounds are still an excellent choice.

I own rifles based on both the Norma and PRC cases so I know first hand just how well they perform with all kinds of different bullets and powders

Agree, especially about if a person already had an LR of another caliber...I have a 30N and obviously a 300 NMi that i necked to a 7mm. I also have a PRC but I necked it to 7mm too. Personally looking at the ratio of powder to bullet size IMPO the 7mm PRC is a sweet spot for that case

 

[Alex Wheeler]

If we are talking about accuracy then Id stick with the .30 bore. A 7mm in any of the sized cases we are talking about is going to smoke throats quick. A 28 Nosler would move a throat a good .010" per 100 rounds. You have to constantly keep up with that. The 7-300 PRC is better but its still going to be at least .005" per 100 rounds. While a 300 NMI hardly moves at all. Im talking 3 shot groups at most with cooling time here. The bigger 7s do look good on paper but the throats go away too quickly for the accuracy and consistency I want.

 

[wasskeet]

Thanks to you all for the wealth of first-hand knowledge with these calibers and taking time to fully answer my questions.