230gr VLD LAZZERONI 7.82(.308)Warbird®

[MudRunner2005]

when we are loading ammo and pour 700-900 powder charges per day, +/- .10gr, it is easy for the persons eyes to fixate on only the decimal point on the digital scale, and then trickle up to the correct decimal measurement ,,,,,

but if the big powder dispenser suddenly drops a charge that is a full grain above or below what you have it set for, and then the person running the trickler only looks at the digits to the right of the decimal point, you end up a full grain of powder under or over what the spec is ,,,,,,,

when using the good o'l balance beam scale, it is either in the middle with the correct charge or it is not ,,,, no room for error to creep in ,,,,,,

That's true. I tend to take my time loading mine (no rush), and being OCD I tend to double and triple check, and remove .1-.4 grains to equal oit my loads to a perfect 0.0. It's an enjoyablr hobby for me, but I can also completely understand where you're coming from.

 

[LazzInc]

B23 ,,,,,,

I measured the 7.82 (.308) Warbird case capacity this morning ,,,,,,

calibrated scale, once fired case, current Hornady manufactured brass lot, 127.2 gr of water ,,,,

now what book of standards is showing the Warbird water capacity at 121 ? ,,,, maybe I am doing this wrong ,,,

 

[B23]

John, I got that 121.5 H2O case capacity from my Quickload Program. I have no idea where they get their case capacity information on all the different cartridges they have listed but if you just filled one to the top and it's level, not over filled, I'd say your 127.2 is the correct number.

Usually, Quickload is very close to actual numbers. Example, when I input your exact load information from the testing with RL33 and the 230's you did it gave me nearly the same chamber pressure numbers that your system gave you. Some loads were within 100psi of your measurements. That's pretty darn close I think. The FPS numbers from Quickload were a little less, 50-75fps, but I believe the barrels you use are a bit faster then the average too. But, overall, QL is amazingly close to real world numbers.

It will be interesting to see what your results are with different powders. RL33 appears to be one of those unique powders, much like N570, that produces a fair bit better FPS numbers than any of the others.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

AmmoGuide lists the Warbird at 117.2 gr of water. Not 100% sure, but I believe that is to top of neck.

 

[LazzInc]

well, 127.2 gr of water is the correct number because that is what I got & I measured carefully ,,,,,

WHY all of these other publications list something different I don't know ,,,,,,

it might go all the way back into the late 90s, when a lot of this stuff was first documented, certain magazine writers (that I won't name here) were responsible for creating these records for the industry ,,,,,,

and they often leaned a little bit into the Weatherby camp, so they would tend to understate the Lazzeroni cartridge velocities, and case capacity and overstate factory loaded pressures ,,,,,

human nature I suppose, when in fact, I have ALWAYS loaded Lazzeroni factory ammo to a maximum average lot mean SAMMI pressure of 66,900 PSI or less ,,,,

which is exactly the same as most of the WBY mags, the 8mm Remington Magnum, and the Remington Ultra mags ,,,,

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I believe AmmoGuide calculates the H20 capacity based on case specs. Mike Haas, the owner of AmmoGuide is a member here and explained it some months ago when someone questioned AmmoGuides accuracy. He was quite adament about the accuracy based on the case specs. If you think there s an error in the specs or his calculations you might want to contact him to clear it up.

He also lists the 30/338 LM Imp at 114.3 gr of H2O which is slightly shorter and also slightly fatter than the Warbird case.

 

[Broken arrow]

B23 ,,,,,,

I measured the 7.82 (.308) Warbird case capacity this morning ,,,,,,

calibrated scale, once fired case, current Hornady manufactured brass lot, 127.2 gr of water ,,,,

now what book of standards is showing the Warbird water capacity at 121 ? ,,,, maybe I am doing this wrong ,,,

I no longer own my 30-378 but I do remember stoking it with 123 grains of IMR 7828 with a little room to spare. The bullet I was pushing was a Hornady 110 grain Spire point at 4086FPS just for giggles. I just loaded some 190 grain Bergers for the new owner pushed by 91 grains of IMR 7828 through the chrono at 3147FPS with no signs of high pressure. So I'm thinking the 127 grains would be pretty close for your Warbird.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I no longer own my 30-378 but I do remember stoking it with 123 grains of IMR 7828 with a little room to spare. The bullet I was pushing was a Hornady 110 grain Spire point at 4086FPS just for giggles. I just loaded some 190 grain Bergers for the new owner pushed by 91 grains of IMR 7828 through the chrono at 3147FPS with no signs of high pressure. So I'm thinking the 127 grains would be pretty close for your Warbird.

Are you sure about putting 123 gr of 7828 in the 30-378 with room left over?

Nosler shows 109 gr of 7828 as 91% capacity. Do the math and 120 gr would be 100% capacity. Nosler also shows 120 gr of 50 BMG as 100 % capacity.

Nosler also shows 109 gr of 7828 as a max load for a 125 gr bullet.

 

[LazzInc]

below is the final version of the Lazzeroni 7.82 (.308) Warbird cartridge, that are still valid today and all Lazz Warbird cases adhere to this specification ,,,,

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Almost exactly the same dimensions AmmoGuide shows. The biggest difference being length of case to shoulder.

AmmoGuide shows 2.311 vs 2.313

Everything else is within .0002 or less.

 

[Outlaw6.0]

I think I'll put my money on the case capacity that was actually measured. A SWAG based on a blueprint just doesn't seem (to me) that it could be as accurate. Granted it doesn't make any difference to me but i'd probably measure 5, 10 or 20 cases & roll with a mean capacity.

How are your new projects coming along Mark?


t

 

[Broken arrow]

Are you sure about putting 123 gr of 7828 in the 30-378 with room left over?

Nosler shows 109 gr of 7828 as 91% capacity. Do the math and 120 gr would be 100% capacity. Nosler also shows 120 gr of 50 BMG as 100 % capacity.

Nosler also shows 109 gr of 7828 as a max load for a 125 gr bullet.

I'm real sure about the load and it was definitely hot in my Sako TRG. I backed it down to 121 grain without any signs of high pressure. Ironically, I was simultaneously working up three different rifles chambered in 30-378. One rifle was a custom Remington model 721 and another was a stainless Weatherby. My TRG consistently shot faster with less signs of high pressure than the other two despite 26" barrels on all three. Keep in mind that the manuals seem to be very cautious with their recommended max load with this cartridge. That TRG was the most accurate out of box rifle I have ever seen. The 200 yard groups were essentially one slightly out of round hole. I bought the rifle after a friend bought one and asked me to help him sight it in. That particular rifle was well under 1" outside to outside as well at 200 yards.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I think I'll put my money on the case capacity that was actually measured. A SWAG based on a blueprint just doesn't seem (to me) that it could be as accurate. Granted it doesn't make any difference to me but i'd probably measure 5, 10 or 20 cases & roll with a mean capacity.

How are your new projects coming along Mark?


t

Tyler,

Funny you should ask, I just got an email from my smith. He got the 6-284 together but needs a couple parts for RUM and 6.5 WSM which I somehow neglected to give him.

As far a case capacity goes, as you know there are a few variables that affect it. Manufacturer/brass thickness, chamber spec and sizing method being a couple. The AmmoGuide capacity isn't a SWAG. It's a mathematical calculation of volume based on case dimensions and fairly accurate. Depending on manufacturer there may be some variation due to brass thickness but usually no more than a couple of grains.

How's the weather in Gillette? We had about a week stretch of sub zero that got to -20.

 

[Broken arrow]

John, I studied your creations for years and appreciate a man that thinks like I do. I just could never afford your rifles until now. Why don't you build a rifle using a necked down 50 BMG to say 375 designed to shoot the 350 grain bullets?? I'm thinking a 30" barrel with a McMillan stock offered with a suppressor option ( ;