List of Cartridges for ELRH?

[Litehiker]

A list of cartridges acceptable for maximum 1,000 yard shots at say deer or cow elk or smaller would be nice. (We are talking ELRH here, after all.)

->But who says what is the minimum energy level for these animals?
->Which have the flattest trajectory COMBINED with the least wind drift?
->Let's at least say the .338 Lapua Magnum/Norma magnum are the upper limit of cartridge size.
->Or are we going to go .416 Barrett. etc?) I suggest only those cartridges for which expanding hunting bullets are available. (i.e., not Match hollow points.

Let's at least first suggest cartridges and get a list going then argue later, perhaps in another related thread.

OK, I suggest 6.5 PRC & 6.5/284 as a lower limit. (Read the article on the 6.5 PRC here at LRH.)

Eric B.
P.S. Guess I should have said MINIMUM 1,000 yard shots. Didn't re-read Len's sticky.
BUT... look in the ANTELOPE forum at the 1,225 yard shot made with a 7mm Rem. mag. That's true ELRH.

 

[Edd]

->But who says what is the minimum energy level for these animals?

I thought that had been established long ago, 1100 ft lbs energy and 1800 fps velocity.

So at sea level you will have to send a 140 gr Nosler Accubond 3750 fps to qualify.

 

[adam32]

Isn't ELRH considered BEYOND 1000 yards?

 

[jasent]

Isn't ELRH considered BEYOND 1000 yards?

elr is not determined my a specific range. It's more the outer limits of a cartridge. Could be 400-500 yards with some cartridges and 1500+ yards with others. Most hunting bullets don't expand reliably below 1600fps. 1800 is considered the safe zone on that. Energy is not something I put a lot of faith in because if a bullet exits it does not shed that energy. That leaves the 1600 FPS or 1800 to be on the safe side.
I have read of many kills on game including elk far beyond that but for the sake of sticking with common ideas let's stick with the 1800fps.

If your an experienced ELR shooter you already know the list.

Any cartridge that is at 1800 FPS at a given range is about at its end and dropping fast. Pushed by wind ect. What ever range that is I would consider it elrh with that cartridge. With some critters it's acceptable to go beyond that such as coyote or ground squirrel but elk I'd try to stick with those numbers what ever range that ends up.
Op maybe we need a given range to give you better feed back.

 

[Slick8]

For what you're looking for there's many options.

I'd say anything that will get a 180 grain 7mm to 3k is in your wheel house.

IMO- That puts the 7rm at the lower end and the 28 nosler in the sweet spot. You could also look at the 7ss Sherman or if you want to have some fun try out the 7APR which is a 7-300wm improved. The apr does require fireformig.

Of course a 300 wsm or wm will fit your goal all day long with a 180-200 boolet.

I'm considering a build that's bull elk capable with 210-230 grain range and looking hard at the 300 Norma mag.

Adding to that the 180 or if you're inclined the 195 berger will have the least wind drift at long range. Something to strongly consider when making your decision.

Like said above when the boolet reaches your minimum velocity threshold that's your maximum range . Most are 1800 fps as stated by the manufacturer. I tend to lean conservative and set mine at 2000.

 

[KyCarl]

Shouldn't long range be based on the shooters ability? A 500 yard shot that I have to
really put some thought into would be nothing but a chip shot for others?
I have a 6.5 X 284 and a 300WM that both shoot beyond me.

 

[gohring3006]

Not trying to be a thread killer, but....
If you're considering a ELR cartridge, you should already be fluent in ELR cartridges, ballistics and gear. With that said, most guys shooting ELR, are using large capacity cartridges starting with 7mm.
With the majority using a .338 or bigger. We are talking extreme long range and not just long range.
Perhaps this should be moved to the other sub forum.

 

[KyCarl]

"If you're considering a ELR cartridge, you should already be fluent in ELR"

Well then ..How can you learn without a rifle capable of it?
Golfing with no clubs is pretty tough?

 

[gohring3006]

"If you're considering a ELR cartridge, you should already be fluent in ELR"

Well then ..How can you learn without a rifle capable of it?
Golfing with no clubs is pretty tough?

Never said not to get a rifle that's capable, just make sure you're capable of choosing one with the basic understanding of all factors involved. Ballistics determines the rifle, time, practice and research determines the capabilities of the shooter. If you don't know ballistically what's needed, you won't know squat about what those cartridge numbers mean.
To sum it up,
If you gotta ask what rifle/cartridge, you're not ready for ELR hunting.

 

[adam32]

That's kinda what I meant...ELR is Extended long range...not long range...and I'm pretty sure it's around 1000 and BEYOND...it doesn't mean different things to different people.

 

[jasent]

That's kinda what I meant...ELR is Extended long range...not long range...and I'm pretty sure it's around 1000 and BEYOND...it doesn't mean different things to different people.

it dosent work that way. 400 yards is ELR with 22lr. 1200 yards is not ELR for a 375 cheytac. Ect

 

[adam32]

it dosent work that way. 400 yards is ELR with 22lr. 1200 yards is not ELR for a 375 cheytac. Ect

No.

 

[Capt RB]

ELR starts beyond 1000yds. Time of flight doesn't matter on steel/paper. Live animals can and will move with the extended time of flight involved. The energy standards of #1000 for whitetail and 1500 for elk are well entrenched. Can you kill either with less of course.
Inside of 1000 yds time of flight is 1 sec or less for alot of cartridges. My creedmore load hits 1000#between 950 and 1000yds. This is a 147@2830 sea level standards. Time of flight is 1.26-1.35 between 950/1000. I'd shoot a coyote in a heart beat here. A deer would have to be perfect conditions for me to consider a shot. If I stepped up to the 7mag I would feel better about it if my 7 shoots as well as the 6.5 does. Have not sorted it out yet. If I can get to the upper end of the velocity expected I will have much more energy and a 1/10th second faster tof to 1000yds.
Step up to stw or nosler and you get more energy and a few 1/100's quicker tof. Plus the option of running a higher bc/heavier bullet without a huge tof penalty.
It is these aspects of elr that really need to be addressed A 1.71 second tof to 1300yds for a hot 180/7mm load would need a dead still animal. Only a bedded one provides that. Being able to 100% make that shot weeds out alot of folks.
Using a big 30 with a 230smk@ .8 bc at 3100fps can deliver 500# more energy @1400 than that hot 180gn load does at the same 1400yds. Now you would need the bullet to transfer it to the animal. That would mean using a lower BC bullet like the 225eldm and your down to #350-400# more than a fast 180. The 195/7mm 3100fps would be 250# less energy and a solid 1/10+ longer tof.
This all expecting you to be able to 100% call the conditions and be able to shoot better than 1/2 moa cold bore.
I purposely used 1400yds because of the elr standards used in the event early this year. 2 shooters did this @ 1500 and 1 other did it at 1760 and 2011yds. 1 was using a 7mm stw. The other 2 were using big 375's with bullets with much higher bc's on a static target larger than the kill zone of a deer and pretty close to that of an elk.
You can look up on youtube some of the videos of that event. I recognized most of the shooters that didn't do that. They shoot better than I can and I have been able to be a sub moa shooter at 1000 yds since the early 80's.

 

[Litehiker]

OK, to clarify, I compete in long range shooting to 1,000 yards here in Nevada. I shoot a Ruger Precision Rifle (6.5 CM) with a Bushnell ERS 3.5 -0 21 x 50 and H59 reticle.
So, yeah, I understand the ballistics.

I have a Browning Stainless Stalker A-Bolt in .300 Win mag and load Berger 215 and 230 Hybrids. I understand the ballistics and know these higher weight .30 caliber bullets retain supersonic velocity longer.

I guess I'll never consider myself an ELR hunter B/C I'll never be carrying a 416 Chey Tac or .338 LM. For me there's the matter of ethics of a shot that long with my .300 Win mag. I won't try it even though, given good conditions, I could do it.

I guess I should have re-read Len's definition of ELRH.
Good luck gents. Hope you have the artillery to make good ELRH shots.

Eric B.