Better Scope Options than Dovetail Rings...?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Full Curl, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. Full Curl

    Full Curl Well-Known Member

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    Hi. I recently dropped off a stock rem 700 LSS (270wsm) with my gunsmith for him to custom fit and bed into a new HS Precision stock. He gave me a little grief with the rings I currently have on it… Leupold dovetails.

    https://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/mounting-systems/dual-dovetail-mounting-systems/

    He basically told me that there are better mounting systems out there and he recommended detachable rings. He said the dovetails are strong as hell but not a great option if one ever wanted to change scopes and can be finicky to align exactly correct with each other.

    I was in a hurry so had to get going, but I’ve been thinking about what he said and will give him a call to further discuss this week, but I thought I’d ask on here what some of you more experienced guys think and would recommend for a good ring and base option for this rifle? It’s just a hunting rifle… and I like one and done type options for long term dependability. I’ve never used the detachable rings but thought they might be a good option...??? Not sure.

    The scope will be a Leupold with a 1” tube if it matters. Thanks.
     
  2. velvetant

    velvetant Well-Known Member

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    Nothing wrong with what you have for a hunting rifle.
    The problem with dovetail mounts is you can't do a 20 moa base that I'm aware of, again not a big deal for your set up.
    I have a couple dual dovetail setups on my rifles, strictly medium range hunting rigs. I feel no need to change them. I lapped them so I know alignment is good
    In the long-range game you would need to switch to a 20 moa picatinny base and rings to match.
    I run Warne 20 moa bases and Seekins rings on my long range rifles.
    And is he recommending quick detachable rings for a reason or just the regular rings that can be removed with the rings left attached to the scope?
     
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  3. sable tireur

    sable tireur Well-Known Member

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    Based on the current achievements in scope mounting technology, the older Leupold dual dovetail rings are out-of-date. This doesn't mean that they are bad but there is new technology which might be a boon to your situation should your decisions about a new scope change.

    Many shooters have jumped on the Picatinny rail system for mounting riflescopes. You can have a variety of angle changes in these rails to enhance long range shooting and the rings are generally all interchangeable based on the Picatinny system and scope tube size. There is a good deal of range in the pricing of these components so you can stay less expensive or jump onto the biggest and bestest rails and rings available.

    I use the rail system almost exclusively because it allows me to change scopes easily yet have a basic return to position ability. Many of the rings are precision machined, eliminating the need to lap rings in order to avoid ring marks on your expensive scope.

    These components offer flexibility and rigidity not found in the older style rings and bases.

    Regards.
     
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  4. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    He's 100% right. There are MUCH better options out there than the old Leupold dovetail ring/base setups.

    The best setup you can get is a picatinny rail and a nice set of heavy duty picatinny style rings. I use EGW HD (7075 aircraft aluminum) bases, and Seekins Precision (7075 aircraft aluminum) rings. By the time you pay shipping or taxes, you'll be about $200 invested in this setup, but the strength, durability, and ability to swap scopes with another one that is already mounted in another set of rings, is worth it, especially if you're in the field and have an emergency, you only need to carry 2 torx wrenches (T-10 & T-25).
     
  5. FearNoWind

    FearNoWind Well-Known Member

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    I have had Leupold dual dovetail rings on my varmint (ground squirrel) rifle for about ten years.
    They are quite suitable for that little .223 with its fixed 12 scope. But over the past ten years I've found Picatinny rails and a good set of tactical rings are an improvement over the Leupold setup. So I'd agree with your gunsmith.
     
  6. LoneTraveler

    LoneTraveler Well-Known Member

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    Your Gun Smith has some good points.
    You must align the rings with a solid steel rod and lap them to get safe a non scratching fit on the scope.
    If the gun is a reasonable kicking rifle and the scope is not to big and heavy you can get by with the lighter Leupold dovetail bases or The bases with dovetail front and rear windage screws.
    If using a hard kicking rifle and a heavy scope, or for a non problem set up, A picatinny rail and cross bolt rings are a near must have system.

    A shooting friend of mine had a 338 RUM with a heavy scope that battered the dovetails loose on a set of mounts in just a few shots. He put a rail set up and ended the problem.
     
  7. Full Curl

    Full Curl Well-Known Member

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    GREAT replies guys, thank you. Sounds like my smith was spot on. I'm not very familiar with the picatinny rail and/or tactical rings. What would be some good options to consider? Specific brands and models for maybe not the top of the line, but very good? I noted the EGW HD and Seekins above, thank you. Are there others out there to consider as well? And I'm assuming a picatinny rail is a 1 piece rail? Thanks.
     
  8. Full Curl

    Full Curl Well-Known Member

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    Thanks FNW! Learning as I go here... do I want a base with any elevation? I'm used to shooting Luepold medium rings with 40mm scopes. I see most of these either have "none" or "20 MOA" elevation. I don't shoot much past 800yds. Thinking I don't need one with elevation...?
     
  9. FearNoWind

    FearNoWind Well-Known Member

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    I make it a point to always include 20moa in my bases. During my photography experience I learned that even the best lenses can have some distortion near their edges. With my 20 moa base, when I center the horizontal cross hair on my NF (mounted on my .284) zeroed for 200 yards, I know that my reticle is still fairly well centered and throughout the range of adjustments I am always confident that the image is distortion free.
     
  10. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    I used to recommend the TPS TSR picatinny rings as an affordable rings option, but they have gone up almost DOUBLE in price, and are now as much as the Seekins rings, and I much prefer the design of the Seekins rings, and they are built like a tank.

    I run the EGW HD/Seekins ring combo on almost all of my rifles. Over time I swapped almost all of them to this setup, I still have a couple with EGW HD/TPS TSR rings, because I bought the TPS rings when they were still around $70 a set, now they're almost $130, so you might as well buy a set of Seekins.

    Just my opinion.
     
  11. Full Curl

    Full Curl Well-Known Member

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    Thanks FNW and MR05. I'm ready to order a picatinny style base and rings but can't decide if I want a base with any elevation. It's going on a 270wsm that I really don't do much long range stuff with. I might look at the option of having 2 different scopes for this rifle, each on its own set of rings, that I can easily swap out depending on what type of hunting I'm doing. Thinking either a "no elevation" or "20MOA"... can't seem to decide. Also both scopes have 1" tubes and the ring height on the Seekins and Vortex picatinny style rings seems to be pretty standard for 1" tubes so I don't have to choose any options there. Thanks for all the info. I've learned a lot here in the last couple days.
     
  12. Full Curl

    Full Curl Well-Known Member

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    Just got off the phone with my smith and told him to hold off on remounting the scope until I get a new base and set of rings to him. I asked him about the picatinny style and he said that they were good but there really isn't a need on a rem700 for a 1 piece base. He recommended a 2 piece and I see EGW doesn't even make a 2 piece for the 700 short action. These are the rings he recommended:

    https://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/mounting-systems/qrw-mounting-systems/qrw-1-in-medium/

    I asked about a aluminum base and rings to save on weight and he said to stick with a steel base and go with aluminum for the rings. He's a great smith and does great work. Is this all just a matter of personal opinion because I'm more confused now. Is there any reason I should go with a 1 piece picatinny style base over 2? Who makes good 2 piece bases? And the only difference between lets say Seekins rings and the leupold QRW are that the QRW rings are easier to remove with the thumb levers? Like someone posted above, the Seekins rings can be removed and reinstalled easily with a couple tools? So many options to choose from...!!!
     
  13. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    Here's where your smith and I disagree... He is actually flat-wrong on that one. The 1-piece base adds strength to the receiver and keeps it from flexing as bad. As big of a Rem 700 fan as I am, believe me, there is still room for improvement when it comes to "beefing-up" the stock 700 receiver, and one way to help is a 1-piece base or picatinny rail setup.

    Another huge advantage of the (high-quality brand) picatinny rail is that it is machined from 1 solid piece of metal... Therefore, it is naturally lined-up, when you install your scope in a good quality set of rings, and generally will not ever need to have the rings lapped for proper surface contact with the scope tube.

    You're smith seems to a be a bit old-school in his knowledge and technology levels... There are many more advantages to the 1-piece picatinny rail and tactical ring setup, as well as the ones that have been mentioned already in the this thread.

    Once again, these are just my opinions, but they are based on facts.
     
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