Why Hammer Bullets Are Always Faster

[Rich Coyle]

"The first thing I would do is check with factory loads to see velocity and if has same pressure signs. I would also try different brand of brass. If get expected results with those I would keep paying attention to it but assume it is a bad lot of brass though I would keep loads on mild side until do not see signs again after more shooting."

How does one check pressure without pressure testing equipment?

 

[Lou270]

You cant. You are not checking pressure but you have factory loads that will be within saami limits for the cartridge. You know that in a min spec saami barrel these loads are ok. If you get pressure signs with them but not reasonable velocity probably means you have a false reading and need to debug for mechanical issue. If you cant identify what is causing the pressure signs take it to a gunsmith. If you get pressure signs with them at high velocity means you have a gun that needs lower powder charges.

Lou

 

[adam32+P]

That's right and this falls in line with Lou's pressure problem, Hammers don't fit under any general bullet information or profiles, it's a game changer and folks can't get their heads around it

Absolute Hammers yes... NOT Hammer Hunters.

The only true Gamechanger is made by Sierra

 

[Lou270]

John Barsness writes some good stuff on the pressure topics. For ex look at pressure signs in this: https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/reloading-myths-for-rifle-cartridges/371443

Lou

 

[Rich Coyle]

If the brass case is the weakest link in the loading process and getting eight or ten loads, it doesn't make any difference what an arbitrary test says the pressure is, it is a safe load.

 

[dogz]

John Barsness writes some good stuff on the pressure topics. For ex look at pressure signs in this: https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/reloading-myths-for-rifle-cartridges/371443

Lou

I was talking with JB yesterday, indeed it'd be interesting for him to join

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Lol. That there is funny. An experienced reloader should know all this. Pressure tested data has shown many times that old school techniques of pressure signs (or lack thereof) are not reliable indicators of safe pressure. Whether cratering, case head expansion, bolt lift, etc.

I am sitting at bench right now waiting for barrel to cool and ran a string of hammers out of my 270:

Fed new brass

Fed 210m

2.813 (.03)

Rl17

54 - 3199

55 - 3252

56 - 3345

56.5 - 3406

57 - 3432

57.5 - 3467

Barnes 110tsx, 129lrx rl17 data extrapolates out to max charge around 56gr-57 @3400. Matches nearly perfectly. No pressure signs on anything. So i will go with 56 or 56.5 load and play with seating depth. I could keep dumping powder until I see a pressure sign and back off a grain but who knows what pressure that is. I dont really know what pressure my load is either but there is a refernce with a similar bullet

Lou

You don't know what your pressure is currently. It is very mild, so you are in a good place.

 

[Lou270]

JB has taught me a lot. Him and Jamison are probably best techical writers without going down the rathole of ocd or "too technical to read". I have his old Gentry 280.

Lou

 

[Lou270]

You don't know what your pressure is currently. It is very mild, so you are in a good place.

That is my plan. I dont think mild per se but not max since I was shooting around 70F and may shoot at temps exceeding 90

 

[dogz]

JB has taught me a lot. Him and Jamison are probably best techical writers without going down the rathole of ocd or "too technical to read". I have his old Gentry 280.

Lou

don't mind to sidetrack this fun thread......but that 280 was one Hella Cool gun. Old DG was a heck of a smith!

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I am not sure what your point is. For most bullets there is pressure tested data. If you are exceeding the velocity of these loads with same powder/bullets with "your load method" you are probably running higher pressures. This may not blow you up or have pressure signs.

There is no pressure tested hammer data proving any of these claims of higher velocity. There are some theories but they are not tested. Period. End of story. There is no debate possible to this

You may be perfectly correct that hammers give more velocity with faster powders. Just because you see this on a chronograph without pressure signs is meaningless and proves nothing. You see this same thing happen in a pressure lab across many bullets and powder combos it means something. Sorry but that is only way to prove this

Browse the latest 2023 hodgdon manual if you want a blurb on loading monos. They included hammers in the discussion and said they see no difference in loading different monos and on average drive higher pressure than cup and cores.

Lou

Hodgdon talks about Hammer Bullets in their load manual? That's pretty cool!

 

[cajun]

John Barsness writes some good stuff on the pressure topics. For ex look at pressure signs in this: https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/reloading-myths-for-rifle-cartridges/371443

Lou

Very good article. Especially the part about when a major ammo company tested some popular loads for a wildcat and found they were running 70-75K. Thats almost proof load territory. Fact is pressure signs dont show up until your way above saami. Now you can load like that and not have a catastrophic case failure. And just because you can get 8 loads before the pockets let go does not mean it's not above saami max. Also saami max is lower than 65k on some rounds due to older military rifles and autoloaders. The 06 is 60k. The 280 I think was 58k. So you can load a little past the data out there and still be under 65k.Also if you look at the powder makers data you see many of them list loads at 60k for a 65k max. So there is wiggle room to even get to saami max. So bottom line I bet if your magic bullet load data is tested it's going to be over saami. How much IDK. There is no free lunch in physics. I would hope the hammer guy has patented his design because if you really can get 400 fps over established load data and be under 65k then that design is going to be worth some money. Kinda makes you wonder why Barnes with all there resources hasnt figured it out.

 

[ButterBean]

Absolute Hammers yes... NOT Hammer Hunters.

The only true Gamechanger is made by Sierra

Any Hammer is gonna be faster with less pressure regardless

 

[Northkill]

Any Hammer is gonna be faster with less pressure regardless

That's been my experience anyway...so far.