What happened to the '06?

[MontanaRifleman]

Clint,

What's in a name? The term magnum is relative. Compared to a 308 Win, the 30-06 is a magnum. They are all various sizes and shapes of cases that push 308 cal projectiles. If you like the nostalgia of the 30-06 that's great.

The stnd 06 should be able to do what you want but you could do an AI. Doing wildcats is a fun thing (love of labor) for the most part because there is usually already an existing case to do the same job ballisitically. I.e., the WSM or SAUM will do what the 06 AI will do.

I think the Sherman case are a great inovation and you could do one for "neat" factor, but I think if I were going to do an 06 AI I would use 06 Lapua brass. (No offense Rich )

If you want something a little more than the 06 you might consider the SAUM or WSM or even the 300 RCM which I think is a pretty cool cartridge. Pretty much right there between the 06 and WSM and good Hornady brass. Just pretend the "M" part doesn't exist

 

[Bart B]

X-man.....If you are genuinely concerned, I thank you for that! Here is what I suggest: Look up the data that I quoted from both Berger and Lyman and see if it makes sense to you. If it does, Great! If it doesn't, have your connections with Hodgdon call Berger and Lyman and straighten them out! Thanks for your input........Rich

Rich, show us doubters some actual measured pressure numbers from your barrel, then we may walk away with our tail between our legs.

There's lots of measured pressure numbers out there for some cartridges, but none I'm aware of for your .300 Sherman barrel and ammo you load for it.

 

[elkaholic]

Rich, show us doubters some actual measured pressure numbers from your barrel, then we may walk away with our tail between our legs.

There's lots of measured pressure numbers out there for some cartridges, but none I'm aware of for your .300 Sherman barrel and ammo you load for it.

Bart ......I'll give you the same advice I gave X-man. Call Hodgdon and have them straighten it out! In the meantime, I'm doing just fine! Thanks for your help........Rich

 

[elkaholic]

Clint,

What's in a name? The term magnum is relative. Compared to a 308 Win, the 30-06 is a magnum. They are all various sizes and shapes of cases that push 308 cal projectiles. If you like the nostalgia of the 30-06 that's great.

The stnd 06 should be able to do what you want but you could do an AI. Doing wildcats is a fun thing (love of labor) for the most part because there is usually already an existing case to do the same job ballisitically. I.e., the WSM or SAUM will do what the 06 AI will do.

I think the Sherman case are a great inovation and you could do one for "neat" factor, but I think if I were going to do an 06 AI I would use 06 Lapua brass. (No offense Rich )

If you want something a little more than the 06 you might consider the SAUM or WSM or even the 300 RCM which I think is a pretty cool cartridge. Pretty much right there between the 06 and WSM and good Hornady brass. Just pretend the "M" part doesn't exist

Mark....good point! I wish I had some Lapua brass in that size! It would alleviate part of the danger of running 80,000 psi at the same time...rich

 

[Bart B]

Bart ......I'll give you the same advice I gave X-man. Call Hodgdon and have them straighten it out! In the meantime, I'm doing just fine! Thanks for your help........Rich

That would be a waste of my time; everyone elses, too, in my opinion. I'd rather see pressure numbers measured on your barrel with your loads. That's the stuff in contension. Pressure testing your barrel and ammo's the only thing that will back up anyone's claim about your barrel and ammo with 100% credibility.

 

[X-man]

X-man.....If you are genuinely concerned, I thank you for that! Here is what I suggest: Look up the data that I quoted from both Berger and Lyman and see if it makes sense to you. If it does, Great! If it doesn't, have your connections with Hodgdon call Berger and Lyman and straighten them out! Thanks for your input........Rich

I don't have the Lyman #48 loading manual so I don't see what they show for velocities fro the 180 and 200 grain loads, but I suspect they show 2850fps for the 180 grain and 2700fps for the 200 grain bullet?


300 SAUM max load with a 180 grain 64.5 grains IMR 4831 gives what velocity?
300 SAUM max load with a 200 grain 62 grains IMR 4831 gives what velocity?
Can you look it up for me?

 

[elkaholic]

This is a waste of my time and I won't allow myself to be drawn into saying things I will regret later.......Rich

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Rich, I'm guessing if you were pushing 80K, you would at least be blowing a bunch of primers. 5 firings is about what I get out of my RP 300 RUM and WW 25-06 brass and I have pushed it harder. They are warm loads but I feel quite safe with them.

 

[elkaholic]

Rich, I'm guessing if you were pushing 80K, you would at least be blowing a bunch of primers. 5 firings is about what I get out of my RP 300 RUM and WW 25-06 brass and I have pushed it harder. They are warm loads but I feel quite safe with them.

Thanks Mark! That is real world info. I'll let the rest of the members decide for themselves what is really going on here.......Rich

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Clint, I have another great idea for you! Do a wildcat off the 8mmx68S.

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd8x68s.jpg

Neck it down to 308 and push the shoulder down from 15* to 30* or 35* or 40* or whatever and blow the shoulder out from .478 to say .500. You will have about the same capacity as a 300 WM and it isn't officially a magnum, it's a 8x68S wildcat And you could have a nice long neck.

You could load it mild or warm as you want with a slow powder like Retumbo and get anywhere from 30-06 to 300 WM velocities.

And RWS brass is as good as any.

You could call it anything you want like a 300 or 308 Breitwieser.

 

[X-man]

Rich, I'm guessing if you were pushing 80K, you would at least be blowing a bunch of primers. 5 firings is about what I get out of my RP 300 RUM and WW 25-06 brass and I have pushed it harder. They are warm loads but I feel quite safe with them.

80,000psi sounds crazy I know, but how would you know that?

I can tell you what I know from first hand testing with both an Oehler 43 and a RSI pressure trace.
Extractor marks start to appear at 68-75,000psi with domestic brass.
Lapua brass can be much higher.

I have no idea how much pressure it takes to blow a primer (I have never blown one) and my pressure testing equipment only reads to 80,000psi.

The only way to know you are reasonably safe (without pressure testing equipment) is to make sure you do not exceed the maximum listed velocity for your powder/bullet.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

80,000psi sounds crazy I know, but how would you know that?

I can tell you what I know from first hand testing with both an Oehler 43 and a RSI pressure trace.
Extractor marks start to appear at 68-75,000psi with domestic brass.
Lapua brass can be much higher.

I have no idea how much pressure it takes to blow a primer (I have never blown one) and my pressure testing equipment only reads to 80,000psi.

The only way to know you are reasonably safe (without pressure testing equipment) is to make sure you do not exceed the maximum listed velocity for your powder/bullet.

In my reloading experience, I see different high pressure signs and combination of signs from different rifles. No 2 have been exactly the same. I have seen ejector marks from my Senderos with less than published charges and less by several grains of my final max loads. Also have a 22-250 that craters all primers, starting loads, factory loads and max loads. Etc., etc. Pressure signs can be very difficult to read but I usually have a good idea of where I am and where my rifle's limit is.

Published data is a guide for me, not the final word. I have seen data for the 300 RUM where the starting load was higher in one manual than the max load in another for the same bullet and powder... Nosler and Hodgdon. Pressure/velocity ratios have many factors, including brass, primers, chamber/throat spec, bore spec, powder and/or primer lot, etc. There is no published data that specifically defines any particular load. Many times my max loads have been very close to published and sometimes not. And sometimes there is just no published data available. That is most time for me. Same goes for the Sherman case. There is no data for that so you have to interpolate as best as you can and then go with what you can discern through knowledge and experience.

I usually go until I feel a sticky bolt, unless I am seeing real flat primers and other signs, and then back off 1 or 2 grains. If my primer pockets are going after 2 or 3 firings, I back off. I define my max loads by how long my primer pockets last. So far it's worked for me. If i had pressure equipment, I would use that, but I don't. I use what I have and do the best I can

 

[elkaholic]

In my reloading experience, I see different high pressure signs and combination of signs from different rifles. No 2 have been exactly the same. I have seen ejector marks from my Senderos with less than published charges and less by several grains of my final max loads. Also have a 22-250 that craters all primers, starting loads, factory loads and max loads. Etc., etc. Pressure signs can be very difficult to read but I usually have a good idea of where I am and where my rifle's limit is.

Published data is a guide for me, not the final word. I have seen data for the 300 RUM where the starting load was higher in one manual than the max load in another for the same bullet and powder... Nosler and Hodgdon. Pressure/velocity ratios have many factors, including brass, primers, chamber/throat spec, bore spec, powder and/or primer lot, etc. There is no published data that specifically defines any particular load. Many times my max loads have been very close to published and sometimes not. And sometimes there is just no published data available. That is most time for me. Same goes for the Sherman case. There is no data for that so you have to interpolate as best as you can and then go with what you can discern through knowledge and experience.

I usually go until I feel a sticky bolt, unless I am seeing real flat primers and other signs, and then back off 1 or 2 grains. If my primer pockets are going after 2 or 3 firings, I back off. I define my max loads by how long my primer pockets last. So far it's worked for me. If i had pressure equipment, I would use that, but I don't. I use what i ahve and do the best I can

What you describe is near exactly what I do. I have been reloading, making bullets, and designing cartridges, etc ,for some 45 years now. I feel very comfortable with what I do........Rich

 

[X-man]

I get that you know your way around the reloading thing. That isn't what I was asking though (my bad).

I was referring to this part.
"I'm guessing if you were pushing 80K, you would at least be blowing a bunch of primers"
How do you know he isn't at 80K (or higher) or at what pressure primers start to blow?
I don't know what pressure starts to blow primers and I have the testing gear.