What happened to the '06?

[Sully2]

Why it isn't talked about? Because it has just flat gotten out paced by advancements in cartridge design, and by the cool factor. Make no mistake though the old 06 is every bit as capable as it was when I was following my pops around the mountains. If a guy ever wants to know just what the 06 is capable of, make a pot of coffee, and do some research you'll be reading for a while. No other cartridge has ever set as many records as the old 06 has to it's credit, sure some of em have fallen, but the 06 set em first. Now that I made it sound like I drink from the 06 coolaid pitcher, I don't, I don't have one, never owned one either. But I do have a lot of respect for that round, which is time proven to be one helluva round.

X2!! If I had ANY reason to own a "larger" bore rifle for hunting...an "06" would be in my stable.

 

[Daveinjax]

If the gun shop was like a car dealership you could still buy a 1976 f100 with a strait six and three on the column right next to a 2013 f150 with an ecoboost motor. Both will set you back $40,000. Both will haul a load .

 

[Bart B]

No other cartridge has ever set as many records as the old 06 has to it's credit, sure some of em have fallen, but the 06 set em first.

Of course, the .30-06 set them first. No other cartridge was used for virtually 100% of the NRA courses of fire from 1906 to 1935. Since then, they've all fallen as other cartridges were allowed.

First ones to fall in shoulder fired rifle matches were the long range ones trounced in 1935 by the .300 H&H Mag. Others further trounced at long range up to the present were done so by other cartridges starting with other 30 caliber magnums in the late 1950's. Starting in 1963, all the others were trounced by the .308 Win. in the next couple of years. The .308's superior accuracy is the reason the NRA reduced the target scoring ring diameters; too many unbreakable ties were fired.

If you add up all the newer courses of fire in competition added since 1963 and check the record scores fired in each with all allowed cartridges, you'll see the .308 has set more records than any of the others to date. But the 22, 24 and 26 caliber ones have began eating away at the .308's record for a few years. Only at the longest ranges does the .308 remain the cartridge of choice for most shoulder fired matches.

 

[TOM H]

I've always hunted elk/deer elk same season and for many years here if you wanted to hunt deer had to do same season as your elk tag. When they change it so you could hunt deer separate I started having some deer rifles build and I own couple 30-06. One of the 30-06 I'll use if drawn for late cow tag.

I know when I moved here 70's they were having problems with party killing on elk/deer and they started enforcing he who kills it tags it. If you don't get your elk down and he runs by another hunter and he drops him guess what he tags him.

I hunt public land so if it's a OTC bull tag I'll hunt with a mag and if it's a draw bull tag I'll take the mag and I may take 280AI hunt with that few days.

I do agree with Mike that this is a long range hunting site and it was nice back then because we all had the same interest. Site has changed over the years.

 

[ctbreitwieser]

I really aprreciate everyones input, and to be honest, you all have taught me a lot in just these few pages of posts. For that I thank you, and I am reconsidering chambering my build in 30-06. So now I have to ask, what are some other cartridges that would optimise my performance, and still fall into my bigger than 308 but not a magnum requirement?

 

[Bart B]

So now I have to ask, what are some other cartridges that would optimise my performance, and still fall into my bigger than 308 but not a magnum requirement?

One of the 30 caliber rimless bottleneck rounds such as those offered by Remington and Winchester that are a bit bigger than the '06 but don't have a belt..

 

[Daveinjax]

I am assuming this is for hunting so how about a smaller diameter bullet but tbe same 168gr to 180gr weight range ? Same or less recoil on your end and more energy at 1000 yards. The reason the 7mm is so popular with long range shooters is that it delivers enough energy at 1000 yards to dependably kill elk on down while still being comfortable to shoot without a brake.
I would look to the 284 win , 280 ai , 7mm saum , or 7mm wsm. I shoot a 7mm wsm and it is at the upper limit of my recoil tolerance but the first two would be solid performer with a 168gr or 180gr vld. If you are more comfortable with the '06 case family the 280 ai is a winner.

 

[Bart B]

I am assuming this is for hunting so how about a smaller diameter bullet but tbe same 168gr to 180gr weight range ? Same or less recoil on your end and more energy at 1000 yards.

I think that with a 7mm SAUM compared to a .30-06, both shooting 175's at 2870 fps from 9 pound rifles, the 7mm will have more barrel time recoil impulse than the .30-06. It's the barrel time recoil (before the bullet exits the muzzle) that makes the 7mm a bit harder to shoot accurately. But its the recoil after the bullet's left that's what most folks complain about; it doesn't effect how accurate one can shoot the rifle. In this comparison, the 7mm SAUM also has more recoil after the bullet's left. But not by much.

 

[roninflag]

German Salazar's article on the .30-06 vs .308 is a good one. But it only compares one rifle in each caliber and one shooter doing the tests.

When the .308's scores in competition trumped virtually all the .30-06 scores in the mid 1960's, its 30 to 40 percent better accuracy was attributed to one little difference that few people nowadays know about. With equal quality rifles, barrels, cases, primers, powder and bullets, the best .30-06 match rifles back then shot about 5 to 6 inches at 600 yards properly tested. The .308's shot about 3 to 4 inches at its beginning. The reason was primarily attributed to the 2.5 degree leade angle on .30-06 chambers being too steep. .308's had a 1.5 degree leade angle and bullets were less deformed as they entered the rifling. A .30-06 with a 1.5 degree leade angle shot more accurate.

At all ranges and both cartridge chambers having a 1.5 degree leade angle, the difference is small nowadays, but enough to show that .308's shoot better scores at 1000 yards than the .30-06. I think Sierra tried using the .30-06 to test their 30 caliber bullets 180 grains and lighter but it never quite equalled the accuracy the .308 produced. The track record of each at the Nationals and other NRA high power matches prove this. The .308's case is more condusive to lower muzzle velocity and pressure curve spreads; a critical element of good accuracy. Most folks won't tell the difference. Back when both rounds were legal in Palma matches in the USA, the .30-06 shot some really good scores but was never king of the mountain. One factor's the .308 moves the rifle less in barrel-time recoil than the .30-06 and that makes it easier to shoot accurately.

Afield in hunting rifles and with bullets 180 grains and lighter, it'll be hard to tell the difference. With heavier bullets, of course the larger case capacity of the '06 makes it a better choice. But few animals can tell the difference between two bullets smacking into them with only 150 fps difference in impact speed.

!!!![/QUOTE
the 30-06 is an awesome round . much better than a 308. if you had competed Against German you would say the same thing. the 30-06 stays super sonic to 1000 yards without loading to red line pressures.

 

[bigngreen]

The 30-06 is and was a great all round cartridge but with long range hunting being the focus not just long range shooting it kinda gets left behind, some have a magnum because it says magnum but a good number of us shoot them because we just flat need to launch heavier, better BC bullets faster to get the job done on game at longer ranges. I'll shoot a 22-250 till it runs out of range, then I shoot a 270 WSM which gets me just past a 1000 yards on elk and then I pull the 338 RUM out and sling a 300gr Berger for anything past that, the case is just to get the bullet up to the speed needed to impact game at the range I want to shoot and nothing more. If your hunting range only needs an 06' the rock it, not much need for more!!

 

[TOM H]

I think that with a 7mm SAUM compared to a .30-06, both shooting 175's at 2870 fps from 9 pound rifles, the 7mm will have more barrel time recoil impulse than the .30-06. It's the barrel time recoil (before the bullet exits the muzzle) that makes the 7mm a bit harder to shoot accurately. But its the recoil after the bullet's left that's what most folks complain about; it doesn't effect how accurate one can shoot the rifle. In this comparison, the 7mm SAUM also has more recoil after the bullet's left. But not by much.

Seems like the F-Class open team is going to use 7Mag @ 800,900 and 1000yds this year @ Raton.

Official U.S. F-Class Open Rifle Team Website

 

[Bart B]

Seems like the F-Class open team is going to use 7Mag @ 800,900 and 1000yds this year @ Raton.

Which 7mm magnum? I didn't find the specific one on the team's web site. If it's the 7mm Rem. SAUM, I'm not surprised. That round was used by the Army's AMU team to set a record at Perry last year.

With the F-class team's rifles fired in virtual free recoil, it's an excellent choice. That round looks like a proportionally larger version of the 6BR or 6PPC cartridge the benchresters like to use.

 

[Bart B]

the 30-06 is an awesome round . much better than a 308. if you had competed Against German you would say the same thing.

No, I would not. I've competed with the likes of German Salazar and other top classified long range high power competitors; we all held high master classifications; top 3% of all long range classified competitors. Out scored them sometimes, too.

the 30-06 stays super sonic to 1000 yards without loading to red line pressures.

So does the .308 Winchester as well as the 7.62 NATO round, and at normal, safe peak pressures, too. They're the two cartridges that ended the use of .30-06 rifles by knowledgable competitors winning matches and setting records at 600 through 1000 yards.

Best comparison is made using the M72 .30-06 match round's bullet leaving at about 2700 fps from an M1 (24" barrel) and the M118 7.62 NATO match round's bullet leaving at about 2600 fps from an M14 (22" barrel) and both had 50,000 CUP average peak pressure specs. The same 172-gr. FMJBT match bullet was used in each and remained supersonic at 1000 yards from both. The NATO round went through the paper about 100 fps slower than the 30 caliber one but its improved accuracy from its shorter, fatter case is one of the reasons the 1000-yard target's scoring rings were made smaller.

 

[TOM H]

No, I would not. I've competed with the likes of German Salazar and other top classified long range high power competitors; we all held high master classifications; top 3% of all long range classified competitors. Out scored them sometimes, too.

So does the .308 Winchester as well as the 7.62 NATO round, and at normal, safe peak pressures, too. They're the two cartridges that ended the use of .30-06 rifles by knowledgable competitors winning matches and setting records at 600 through 1000 yards.

Best comparison is made using the M72 .30-06 match round's bullet leaving at about 2700 fps from an M1 (24" barrel) and the M118 7.62 NATO match round's bullet leaving at about 2600 fps from an M14 (22" barrel) and both had 50,000 CUP average peak pressure specs. The same 172-gr. FMJBT match bullet was used in each and remained supersonic at 1000 yards from both. The NATO round went through the paper about 100 fps slower than the 30 caliber one but its improved accuracy from its shorter, fatter case is one of the reasons the 1000-yard target's scoring rings were made smaller.

Bart, you are right it can be any 7mm mag. What you should do is post picture what a Palma 308 rifle look like here some Rules and Tips for Palma Rifle Shooting in the USA.