What happened to the '06?

[elkaholic]

You have to be running some pretty scary pressure to get that velocity.
I have pressure testing equipment that reads up to 80,0000 psi.....you are very likely be above that.
Case shape has nothing to do with the cases ability to handle pressure. Think of the case as a balloon...the pressure is everywhere inside the case and will all escape from the weakest point.

You do realize those 2 tiny locking lugs are holding back 15,000 pounds or more (likely) right? This is strictly bolt face thrust....What do you think will happen if you get cleaning oil in the chamber?
If I told you to climb under 2 diesel pick ups and a Honda Civic stacked end on end while I held them up with your little bolt lugs you would rightly tell me to take a flying leap.

Yet you trust your life to those little lugs because you can't see the forces trying to kill you?
Heads up bro!

I don't believe a RP or WW case will take that kind of pressure before coming unglued......rich

 

[Bart B]

You have to be running some pretty scary pressure to get that velocity.
I have pressure testing equipment that reads up to 80,0000 psi.....you are very likely be above that.

Such pressures also reduce barrel life. Significantly, too.

 

[elkaholic]

Such pressures also reduce barrel life. Significantly, too.

Yes they do all else equal. All I can report are my experiences. I have approx 1600 rounds through my 6.5 sherman and it still shoots under 1/2 moa. This is all I really care about! We can debate all the other isues, most of which we agree on, but the bottom line is what works for me and others using these same chamberings......Rich

 

[roninflag]

Hey everyone, I've been doing a lot of reading on here the past few days, and one thing I've come to notice is that there isn't much talk about the 30-06. Is the great grandfather of modern day long range cartridges dying off? Ill be getting my lathe very soon and one of the first things I want to do on it is build a precision '06. It seems like its the perfect balance between the .308 and .300wm. My hopes are to be able to accurately engage out to 1000-1200 meters, I want it bigger than a .308 and I don't really want a magnum. Am I just not seeing something in these newer calibers that many of you are building on, or is the '06 still a good option for what I want?

Thanks,
Clint

CTBREIT/CLINT- i like the 30-06 . i have more 30-06s than any other caliber. having shot to 1000 yards i would say MORE is better, even more so since you said 1000-1200. for me, the next logical step up from the 30-06 would be a 300 wsm , next a 308 norma , and next a 300 win mag, and next a 300weatherby . not a wildcat something , way too much trouble to get an extra 50-100 fps. i have shot the 6.5-284, 300 win mag and 7mm rem mag to 1000 yards. the extra velocity and bc of heavier bullets really helps with the wind.

 

[elkaholic]

In response to some of the doubters, I'm not doing anything here that you can't do with the short mags with a 28" barrel! My capacity is right in between the WSM and SAUM and it has a longer throat as well.It just happens to be on an '06 sized case. The new Berger manual shows the saum at very near 3000' with a 24 " barrel. My velocities are stated with a 28" barrel. I don't understand the GREAT mystery here?

 

[ctbreitwieser]

Well, I still have a little while to decide what I want to go with, but just for ease of reloading and only for smacking steel up to 1000-1200 yds, I think I might just stick with the '06. I know its old, kind of out dated, and lacking in perfomance compared to many newer cartridges, but it should do what I want. Thanks for the lessons you got taught me, and please, continue these conversations. Im learning a lot.

 

[ctbreitwieser]

Well, I still have a little while to decide what I want to go with, but just for ease of reloading and only for smacking steel up to 1000-1200 yds, I think I might just stick with the '06 (maybe go AI just for a little better performance??). I know its old, kind of out dated, and lacking in perfomance compared to many newer cartridges, but it should do what I want. Thanks for the lessons you got taught me, and please, continue these conversations. Im learning a lot.

 

[elkaholic]

Well, I still have a little while to decide what I want to go with, but just for ease of reloading and only for smacking steel up to 1000-1200 yds, I think I might just stick with the '06 (maybe go AI just for a little better performance??). I know its old, kind of out dated, and lacking in perfomance compared to many newer cartridges, but it should do what I want. Thanks for the lessons you got taught me, and please, continue these conversations. Im learning a lot.

Nothing wrong with a std. '06. One of the most avilable and easiest to load for ever! I would suggest this though; if you are going to bother with improving it, you are going to improve it more with the Sherman than an A.I. Don't let the detractors scare you to death with visions of the nukes I've been loading! Here is an example: Lyman #48 loading manual. 300 SAUM max load with a 180 grain (64.5 grains IMR 4831) 200 grain (62 grains IMR 4831) my case holds approx 2 grains more than the saum and has a longer throat which adds even more capacity. I was loading 64 grains of IMR 4831 with a 190; right in between these two, for 3050' with a 28" barrel. Do the math! The new Berger manual shows the 300 saum top velocity with a "24 inch" barrel at 2880'. Add 2-3 more grains of effective case capacity and 4 more inches of barrel length, and it is not difficult to believe 3050'. I'm pretty sure that both Lyman and Berger are not exceeding saami by 15-20 thousand psi! If you like wildcats, by all means build one and have some fun. If you don't want to mess with case formimg, reloading, etc., buy an '06 and have fun! Just don't let people who insist on being wiser than everyone else, (whether they are or not) discourage you. This is America, right......Rich

 

[benchracer]

In response to some of the doubters, I'm not doing anything here that you can't do with the short mags with a 28" barrel! My capacity is right in between the WSM and SAUM and it has a longer throat as well.It just happens to be on an '06 sized case. The new Berger manual shows the saum at very near 3000' with a 24 " barrel. My velocities are stated with a 28" barrel. I don't understand the GREAT mystery here?

The great mystery here is that you are using an OLD case design to equal the performance of NEW designs. EVERYONE knows that is just dangerous and not possible without the magic short, fat case pixie dust. When Remchester comes out with a smaller cased round, calls it a magnum, and claims it outperforms larger cased cartridges of the same caliber, no one even questions that, let alone excoriates them for being wildly unsafe and irresponsible.

But, let someone do the same thing in an older, not as cool cartridge case and they are conspiring to set off a bomb in your face. Even worse, it's being done in something not called a magnum. It sure is wonderful to know that we have such experts on this site that they can tell you how much pressure your wildcat cartridge generates without taking any measurements, or doing any testing, or bothering with even rudimentary math.

Elkaholic, your REAL problem is that you didn't name your cartridge the Sherman Magnum and pay for slick marketing to have your cartridge proclaimed the pinnacle of cartridge evolution.

 

[elkaholic]

The great mystery here is that you are using an OLD case design to equal the performance of NEW designs. EVERYONE knows that is just dangerous and not possible without the magic short, fat case pixie dust. When Remchester comes out with a smaller cased round, calls it a magnum, and claims it outperforms larger cased cartridges of the same caliber, no one even questions that, let alone excoriates them for being wildly unsafe and irresponsible.

But, let someone do the same thing in an older, not as cool cartridge case and they are conspiring to set off a bomb in your face. Even worse, it's being done in something not called a magnum. It sure is wonderful to know that we have such experts on this site that they can tell you how much pressure your wildcat cartridge generates without taking any measurements, or doing any testing, or bothering with even rudimentary math.

Elkaholic, your REAL problem is that you didn't name your cartridge the Sherman Magnum and pay for slick marketing to have your cartridge proclaimed the pinnacle of cartridge evolution.

Mystery solved! I like your style!.......Rich

 

[ctbreitwieser]

Nothing wrong with a std. '06. One of the most avilable and easiest to load for ever! I would suggest this though; if you are going to bother with improving it, you are going to improve it more with the Sherman than an A.I. Don't let the detractors scare you to death with visions of the nukes I've been loading! Here is an example: Lyman #48 loading manual. 300 SAUM max load with a 180 grain (64.5 grains IMR 4831) 200 grain (62 grains IMR 4831) my case holds approx 2 grains more than the saum and has a longer throat which adds even more capacity. I was loading 64 grains of IMR 4831 with a 190; right in between these two, for 3050' with a 28" barrel. Do the math! The new Berger manual shows the 300 saum top velocity with a "24 inch" barrel at 2880'. Add 2-3 more grains of effective case capacity and 4 more inches of barrel length, and it is not difficult to believe 3050'. I'm pretty sure that both Lyman and Berger are not exceeding saami by 15-20 thousand psi! If you like wildcats, by all means build one and have some fun. If you don't want to mess with case formimg, reloading, etc., buy an '06 and have fun! Just don't let people who insist on being wiser than everyone else, (whether they are or not) discourage you. This is America, right......Rich

I do like wildcats. My first ever bolt gun build (and first thing I ever reloaded) was a .358 Hoosier that I made in gunsmithing school. Took me forever to figure out how to make that brass without totally screwing it up, but it is pretty cool to have something most people dont even know exists. However, theres many .30 cal and lesser wildcats that are all so similar that it makes my head spin. I think if I just stick with the standard '06 Ill have a caliber that I wont regret, and I wont have to ponder over whether or not I picked the "right" wildcat.

Thanks!
Clint

 

[X-man]

Nothing wrong with a std. '06. One of the most avilable and easiest to load for ever! I would suggest this though; if you are going to bother with improving it, you are going to improve it more with the Sherman than an A.I. Don't let the detractors scare you to death with visions of the nukes I've been loading! Here is an example: Lyman #48 loading manual. 300 SAUM max load with a 180 grain (64.5 grains IMR 4831) 200 grain (62 grains IMR 4831) my case holds approx 2 grains more than the saum and has a longer throat which adds even more capacity. I was loading 64 grains of IMR 4831 with a 190; right in between these two, for 3050' with a 28" barrel. Do the math! The new Berger manual shows the 300 saum top velocity with a "24 inch" barrel at 2880'. Add 2-3 more grains of effective case capacity and 4 more inches of barrel length, and it is not difficult to believe 3050'. I'm pretty sure that both Lyman and Berger are not exceeding saami by 15-20 thousand psi! If you like wildcats, by all means build one and have some fun. If you don't want to mess with case formimg, reloading, etc., buy an '06 and have fun! Just don't let people who insist on being wiser than everyone else, (whether they are or not) discourage you. This is America, right......Rich

You might think I am being a blowhard..I understand, but hear me out.

You are loading 190s over 64 grains of IMR-4831 for 3050fps right???
Hodgdon (pressure tested data) lists the 300RSAUM with 65.5grs of H-4831 (0.5 gr slower in a 300) for 2811fps @ 62,800psi.
Pretty much the same powder charge, but you are running 240fps faster in a case you say is larger?...How can that be?
If your case is larger than the RSAUM you would be running slower with the same powder charge right?

With the 300Winchester Hodgdon lists 72.5 grains of IMR-4831 for 2951fps at 61,200psi
That is 100fps SLOWER with 8.5 grains MORE powder in a cartridge that is under 61,200psi?
How do you explain that? Your case is bigger than the 300Winchester?

I understand that you do not believe me...no problem....So phone Hodgdon (913-362-9455) and prove me wrong!
I have seen cases over 80,000psi that showed no signs of pressure.
My buddy and his 416 Rem was a classic example....he swore up and down that my pressure sensor was trash.
Bottom line was I phoned Hodgdon then handed my buddy the phone.
A few seconds later the color faded from my buddies face?
Turns out the Hodgdon employee asked why his voice was so loud????? My buddy replied he wasn't being loud??...The Hodgdon employee said, "well you are **** well the loudest dead man I have ever heard!"
My buddy went home and fixed his load.

I'm not trying to be a dick here, just trying to save you some serious grief.
I am happy to phone them on your behalf?

 

[elkaholic]

I do like wildcats. My first ever bolt gun build (and first thing I ever reloaded) was a .358 Hoosier that I made in gunsmithing school. Took me forever to figure out how to make that brass without totally screwing it up, but it is pretty cool to have something most people dont even know exists. However, theres many .30 cal and lesser wildcats that are all so similar that it makes my head spin. I think if I just stick with the standard '06 Ill have a caliber that I wont regret, and I wont have to ponder over whether or not I picked the "right" wildcat.

Thanks!
Clint

Good choice. Enjoy what you do!.........Rich

 

[elkaholic]

You might think I am being a blowhard..I understand, but hear me out.

You are loading 190s over 64 grains of IMR-4831 for 3050fps right???
Hodgdon (pressure tested data) lists the 300RSAUM with 65.5grs of H-4831 (0.5 gr slower in a 300) for 2811fps @ 62,800psi.
Pretty much the same powder charge, but you are running 240fps faster in a case you say is larger?...How can that be?
If your case is larger than the RSAUM you would be running slower with the same powder charge right?

With the 300Winchester Hodgdon lists 72.5 grains of IMR-4831 for 2951fps at 61,200psi
That is 100fps SLOWER with 8.5 grains MORE powder in a cartridge that is under 61,200psi?
How do you explain that? Your case is bigger than the 300Winchester?

I understand that you do not believe me...no problem....So phone Hodgdon (913-362-9455) and prove me wrong!
I have seen cases over 80,000psi that showed no signs of pressure.
My buddy and his 416 Rem was a classic example....he swore up and down that my pressure sensor was trash.
Bottom line was I phoned Hodgdon then handed my buddy the phone.
A few seconds later the color faded from my buddies face?
Turns out the Hodgdon employee asked why his voice was so loud????? My buddy replied he wasn't being loud??...The Hodgdon employee said, "well you are **** well the loudest dead man I have ever heard!"
My buddy went home and fixed his load.

I'm not trying to be a dick here, just trying to save you some serious grief.
I am happy to phone them on your behalf?

X-man.....If you are genuinely concerned, I thank you for that! Here is what I suggest: Look up the data that I quoted from both Berger and Lyman and see if it makes sense to you. If it does, Great! If it doesn't, have your connections with Hodgdon call Berger and Lyman and straighten them out! Thanks for your input........Rich