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What constitutes “inherently accurate “?

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L:rolleyes:L! This should get some folks excited...

But the most accurate.JPG


Inherently accurate.JPG


(https://www.fieldandstream.com/the-worlds-most-accurate-cartridge/)
 
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It seems pretty clear that virtually every inherently accurate cartridge is also inherently easy to shoot. Have you heard lately that the 375 Cheytac or any of the other boomers that range out to 2 miles are "inherently accurate"? Hell no! Do Benchrest folks even try to see what these cartridges are capable of at short range? Hell no...and the reason is because it is punishment to fire higher recoiling cartilages at high rates. Even a 7mm Mag is a handful at the rate of fire required in those competitions. Does the term "FLINCH" strike a chord with anyone?
 
I thought in the last exchange over this topic us believers that some cartridges display accuracy or consistency easier than others won the argument, but I think in this exchange the believers that all cartridges with a primer, powder, and brass are equal, win this is exchange.

Just one thought, if all cartridges are equal then why do they make small and large primer variations of the same cartridges if they're all equal?
Stronger case head with a smaller primer allows you to get longer pocket life, and the case head can support more pressure due to the increased amount of material around the primer pocket. It has nothing to do with something being any better...Just something different that someone came up as a sales gimmick, and it does make sense.
 
Same here, but only around 20 years for me. Some others that sparked it around the same time for me, were the 7mm STW, .308 Win, .22-250, and 7mm-08 Rem.

If there is a such thing as "inherently accurate", then that very diverse group of cartridges should not all be falling into the same category, as they all possess different characteristics (some being drastic) and dimensions in different capacities, parent cases, and bullet diameters. This proves there is no such thing as an "inherently accurate" cartridge...Only accurate (precision) rifles, being shot by accurate (disciplined) shooters. :cool:
A better question for a thread may be what cartridges are proven to be inherently inaccurate and for what proven reasons. I have a 35 Remington Marlin lever action that will shoot >1.5" groups all day long with factory ammo. While it's not a long range rifle and 1.5" is not impressive, I have had so called inherrenitly accurate cartridges that would not do that.
I thought in the last exchange over this topic us believers that some cartridges display accuracy or consistency easier than others won the argument, but I think in this exchange the believers that all cartridges with a primer, powder, and brass are equal, win this is exchange.

Just one thought, if all cartridges are equal then why do they make small and large primer variations of the same cartridges if they're all equal?
I do believe that same thing that some cartridges can achieve accuracy easier & less finicky but in alot of what makes that possible is the right chamber. My two 270 wsm rifles would do 1 moa all day long, even with some factory ammo. It had narrow nodes & finicky about consistently trying to achieve 1/2 moa after trying four different powders and 5 different bullets & extensive brass prep. The Sammi throat & magazine length is restricted how far out I wanted to seat bullets. I'm sure there are plenty of guys on this forum who do well with a 270 wsm in a saami throat. But I'm my humble opinion, the round would have been way less finicky in a long action with bullets seated long in a longer throat. So in factory form, I wouldn't call it what some people call inherrenitly accurate. With a long throat, I would say that the case itself and loaded long it would certainly put it into what people consider an inherently accurate catridge category. I completely agree with you some cartridges are naturally way less finicky. Some catridges are deemed by many people to be finicky or not inherrenitly accurate when in reality they do have wide accurate nodes or maybe just the correct throating makes easy load development with wide nodes & good case fill ratio with suitable powders. But yes, there are catridges that are definitely less finicky in factory form. 7mm rem mag fits into a category of being non finicky in a factory chamber but you will rarely hear someone say it is "inherently accurate". All that is said about the old rem mag is how awful the belt is and everything that's wrong with it, yet it has been in the top ten of cartridges sold by federal for several years. I guess that I just don't like the phrase "inherently accurate" cause it is misused at times & loosely used. If a group of cartridges fits into a category of inherrenit accuracy, then there must be the others that are not inherrenitly accurate such as my opinion of the 270 wsm in factory form. Longer throat should jump it on over into the inherrenitly accurate category, just my humble opinion. I have two 6.5 cm and a 300 nm, both of those are extremely non finicky so I could say they are "inherrenitly accurate". That said, the 300nm was extremely finicky when the throat was too long.
 
LMAO!!
Taking that a step further, inherently accurate really means "You don't need to put your purse between your shoulder and the rifle when you shoot it"!!
One time at the range, I had a younger guy (probably mid-20's, looked like Reserve based on his haircut) at the range. And during a "Range Cold" call, he asked me what I was shooting, because he was watching through his scope, and saw that I was "really stacking them in there..." (his words).

I simply said, ".308 Win..."

He sort of snarkily-laughed and said, "Ahh, old school... Good stuff, but you should check out the 6.5CM...It's the future..."

I laughed (in front of a couple other "old school" shooters on near-by benches listening), and asked him did his CM come with a matching purse, and does he put it down when he shoots it, or does he prefer to wear his Elton John fanny pack, instead... :D

I was just trying to be funny and lob a friendly jab back at him, after he tossed out that "old school" line. But he got embarrassed and walked off. :cool:
 
A better question for a thread may be what cartridges are proven to be inherently inaccurate and for what proven reasons. I have a 35 Remington Marlin lever action that will shoot >1.5" groups all day long with factory ammo. While it's not a long range rifle and 1.5" is not impressive, I have had so called inherrenitly accurate cartridges that would not do that.

I do believe that same thing that some cartridges can achieve accuracy easier & less finicky but in alot of what makes that possible is the right chamber. My two 270 wsm rifles would do 1 moa all day long, even with some factory ammo. It had narrow nodes & finicky about consistently trying to achieve 1/2 moa after trying four different powders and 5 different bullets & extensive brass prep. The Sammi throat & magazine length is restricted how far out I wanted to seat bullets. I'm sure there are plenty of guys on this forum who do well with a 270 wsm in a saami throat. But I'm my humble opinion, the round would have been way less finicky in a long action with bullets seated long in a longer throat. So in factory form, I wouldn't call it what some people call inherrenitly accurate. With a long throat, I would say that the case itself and loaded long it would certainly put it into what people consider an inherently accurate catridge category. I completely agree with you some cartridges are naturally way less finicky. Some catridges are deemed by many people to be finicky or not inherrenitly accurate when in reality they do have wide accurate nodes or maybe just the correct throating makes easy load development with wide nodes & good case fill ratio with suitable powders. But yes, there are catridges that are definitely less finicky in factory form. 7mm rem mag fits into a category of being non finicky in a factory chamber but you will rarely hear someone say it is "inherently accurate". All that is said about the old rem mag is how awful the belt is and everything that's wrong with it, yet it has been in the top ten of cartridges sold by federal for several years. I guess that I just don't like the phrase "inherently accurate" cause it is misused at times & loosely used. If a group of cartridges fits into a category of inherrenit accuracy, then there must be the others that are not inherrenitly accurate such as my opinion of the 270 wsm in factory form. Longer throat should jump it on over into the inherrenitly accurate category, just my humble opinion. I have two 6.5 cm and a 300 nm, both of those are extremely non finicky so I could say they are "inherrenitly accurate". That said, the 300nm was extremely finicky when the throat was too long.
My dad's old 1950's JM-stamped Marlin 336 .30-30 Win. would never shoot better than 2-3" groups at 100, which growing up, all i ever heard was, "Yep, she's good enough to kill a deer..." When I got older, and that new LeverEvolution .30-30 ammo came out, I bought some. I took it back to the range, and it was producing nearly .308 Win performance, and was shooting 1" 3-shot groups at 100. Absolutely blew me away...Along with a buddy of mine who was also there shooting with me. Turned that 100 yard "brush gun" into a real deer rifle, capable of 200-300 yard shots. May not be BR quality, but it turned an average 2.5-3" gun into an MOA shooter.
 
Been a Ballistics engineer for 40 years. There is inherent inaccuracy, but no inherent accuracy. "Inherent accuracy" is code for: gee, this cartridge/bullet combination is insensitive to a pile of parameters we can control, but I don't understand why.
Simply & well said!
 
After years of loading & shooting, I don't base my rifle builds off of "inherently accurate" I base it off of :#1 what particular bullet I want to shoot,#2 what cartridges will get me to the velocity I want to achieve#3 which of those cartridges can I purchase consistent quality brass in,#4 can I get a powder of good temp stability that will give me good case fill ratio #5 how much Barrel twist do I need #6 how long does the throat need to be and will it fit desired action & magazine length.
If all is done correctly your chances of getting a non finicky accurate rifle increases. Then you call it an inherrenitly accurate rifle, LoL.
 
Stronger case head with a smaller primer allows you to get longer pocket life, and the case head can support more pressure due to the increased amount of material around the primer pocket. It has nothing to do with something being any better...Just something different that someone came up as a sales gimmick, and it does make sense.
Not according to the Palma guys....or Lapua, they really pump the small primer thing, just as much as hornady and Creedmoor lol
 
I've swapped from large to small primers in two chamberings and will never go back, it shaved a lot of my 308 at 1500 yards, I can run them a little harder maybe but I'm so close to where I ran the large primer cases it's not by much, but my ES was better and vertical is LOW!

Better ES and SD has been the same consensus I have been hearing locally here.
 
I understand what you are saying, I just have a different point of view. Again, all cartridges still require some load development. Now, some of the 6br cartridges are very accurate but because of the quality barrels made for them, if it wasn't for those hogh quality barrells they provably won't shoot as good.

We just have different opinions, heck we both might be wrong.
 
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