Trouble with first shot accuracy with T/C Prohunter 50 cal.

[bassman649]

just recently purchased a pro hunter. Something does not feel right and I Am am a frequent rifle shooter. I even sent back one scope thinking that may be the problem . I just mounted it and haven't shot it. These stories are making me nervous so close to opening of the season. Is there any way to tell if I have one of these barrels? Also, for those of you having any good results what powder and bullet are you using?

I have been shooting the TC Prohunter for 5 or 6 years and it was a very long journey. Through a lot of trial and error I have settled on a 300g Deep curl, harvester black crushed rib sabot, 105g Blackhorn 209 and a win 209 primer. I tried the red chrushed rib sabots this week and they also had some promising results. I was never able to group lighter bullets in my prohunter and may expeiriment with 325g FTX next.

 

[WRG]

bassman, your load is real close to what I'm using except I use the 250gr. Barnes TMZ and the "Yellow" crushed rib Harvester sabot with 110 grs of Blackhorn 209 and the Winchester 209 shotshell primer. I also weigh out my powder on a digital scale for consistantcy. Chrono it at 2040 fps which isn't bad for smokepole. My Prohunter shoots hole in hole at 100 yards and a consistant 1.75" - 2.0" group at 200 yards. I too had to try a bunch of combinations before things came together however, I think the Blackhorn powder along with some Mike Bellm upgrades, trigger pull down to 2.5 lbs, heavy hammer spring, 1x over sized hindge pin and what not were the big reasons. One other thing is mine seems to like a fouled barrel. The first shot from a clean barrel always hits out of the group about an 1.5 so I just put a couple down the pipe the day before the season opens and all is good. No different than any other rifle I own. Nice thing about the BH 209 is it won't ruin the barrel if you don't clean it until the end of the season.

 

[sirryan]

thanks for the input . I picked up 777 2FF powder measured to 100 gns and 250grn (yellow)Shockwave Sabbots. The load I'm using seems very common and what most people are happy with (as far as powder charge, sabbot y type and weight) I'm shooting under one inch groups at 50yds. Can't wait to get it out to 100 and beyond. .. now for another question, I have a Nikon Omega BDC aka Inline. They say to use 250 grn rounds with 150 grns of powder or pellets. However, I have heard not to use more than 120 grns with the sabbots because it seriously affects accuracy. I'm very happy with my accuracy as well as the sabbots. they load well and the ballistics seem good. Does any one know how this load will match up with the BDC on the scope. I realize allot has to do with each individual firearm but it is my first BDC so I'm curious wheather the load I'm happy with is going to make such difference the BDC feature on the scope will
be useless.

 

[Elite Muzzleloader]

The scope will do fine however for it to work the way they say you need to shoot the 150 grains of powder. However, I don't like to shoot much over 100 grains by volume. What I would recommend is use what your gun likes then range the distances you want to shoot and figure out which circle is what yardage and use your circles accordingly. This is what I did and work very well for me. I don't like to have a sore shoulder so I shoot around 90 grains and have killed deer clear out to 230+ yards. You will have enough energy but just don't plan on much after 250.

Hope that helps and good luck! Keep us posted!!!

Elite

 

[Redman2002]

thanks for the input . I picked up 777 2FF powder measured to 100 gns and 250grn (yellow)Shockwave Sabbots. The load I'm using seems very common and what most people are happy with (as far as powder charge, sabbot y type and weight) I'm shooting under one inch groups at 50yds. Can't wait to get it out to 100 and beyond. .. now for another question, I have a Nikon Omega BDC aka Inline. They say to use 250 grn rounds with 150 grns of powder or pellets. However, I have heard not to use more than 120 grns with the sabbots because it seriously affects accuracy. I'm very happy with my accuracy as well as the sabbots. they load well and the ballistics seem good. Does any one know how this load will match up with the BDC on the scope. I realize allot has to do with each individual firearm but it is my first BDC so I'm curious wheather the load I'm happy with is going to make such difference the BDC feature on the scope will
be useless.

use your load, go to niksonspoton.com and enter the load into their program, you will get new ranges for the BDC reticle. It helps if you can chrono it... I don't have one, but found FPS from a website using my exact load 250 Barnex TMZ with 100 grain of black horn.... BDC was about 8-20 yds off.

 

[ENCORE]

bassman, your load is real close to what I'm using except I use the 250gr. Barnes TMZ and the "Yellow" crushed rib Harvester sabot with 110 grs of Blackhorn 209 and the Winchester 209 shotshell primer. I also weigh out my powder on a digital scale for consistantcy. Chrono it at 2040 fps which isn't bad for smokepole. My Prohunter shoots hole in hole at 100 yards and a consistant 1.75" - 2.0" group at 200 yards. I too had to try a bunch of combinations before things came together however, I think the Blackhorn powder along with some Mike Bellm upgrades, trigger pull down to 2.5 lbs, heavy hammer spring, 1x over sized hindge pin and what not were the big reasons. One other thing is mine seems to like a fouled barrel. The first shot from a clean barrel always hits out of the group about an 1.5 so I just put a couple down the pipe the day before the season opens and all is good. No different than any other rifle I own. Nice thing about the BH 209 is it won't ruin the barrel if you don't clean it until the end of the season.

Couple questions if you don't mind..... What's your zero set at 100yds? Then for 200yd shooting, how high is you P.O.A and then your P.O.I. (drop)?

I've known Mike for years and have had all my Encore platform rifles tricked out. Funny how about $35 plus shipping can make them tack drivers. Well its that cheap if you can do your own trigger work.

With my current 209x50 Pro Hunter, using the Barnes 250gr. TMZ bullets w/supplied sabots, CCI209M primers and 107.1grs VOLUME (75grs weight), my drop at 200yds is 6" with a 3/4" high zero at 100yds. I don't use any type of BDC retical, as IMO they're worthless for muzzleloaders but, they're good for marketing by the manufacturer. I use the Nikon Moncarch 2.5-10x50.

My current Pro Hunter took the 2x hinge pin immediately when it came out of the box and before even being shot. I also install the HD locking bolt spring, the HD fireing pin spring and depending on usage, I have both the 44# and 51# hammer springs. For just target shooting, I'll install the 51# hammer spring, but for hunting I use the 44# spring. The difference is that the 51# spring makes it borderline for hunting with the trigger pull, taking it down to 1.7#. The 44# hammer spring gives me a 2# pull and for me personally, that's as light as I like for hunting. It also has the trigger over travel screw. Everything with my trigger is polished smoooooooth, eliminating any creep. Its right down to just "think shoot" and it fires.

Note to those that use BH209..... 120grs by VOLUME is a maximum charge. To convert it to weight, you have to use the multiplying factor provided by Western Powders as indicated on their web site. That factor is (.7) So your maximum load by weight should not exceed 84grs. (120*.7=84) My load happens to be 75grs by weight and converted to volume is (75/.7=107.1)

 

[crappiedan]

Just joined sight after finding this thread! Im hooked already! I will spend my hard earned $35 bucks for an upgrade on my TC. I can take my hinge pin out without any tools!

 

[ENCORE]

Just joined sight after finding this thread! Im hooked already! I will spend my hard earned $35 bucks for an upgrade on my TC. I can take my hinge pin out without any tools!

Please note.... Changing a trigger spring can be a bugger! You'll need the directions from Mike Bellm TCs - Other Shops Supporting TCs & Trigger Work which are free if you download them Mike Bellm TCs - Free Encore & G2 Trigger Job Instructions

If you have trouble working with small parts and springs, its a very quick turn around if you send your frame to Jim, who's link is also on that same page. Duncan's here in MI also does it.

If your hinge pin is that loose, you may need a 2x. My current Pro Hunter took a 2x right out of the box and before I ever shot it. You can go back to post #28 and check out what I do to my Encore platform rifles. A TIGHT hinge pin is a must......

 

[crappiedan]

Please note.... Changing a trigger spring can be a bugger! You'll need the directions from Mike Bellm TCs - Other Shops Supporting TCs & Trigger Work which are free if you download them Mike Bellm TCs - Free Encore & G2 Trigger Job Instructions

If you have trouble working with small parts and springs, its a very quick turn around if you send your frame to Jim, who's link is also on that same page. Duncan's here in MI also does it.

If your hinge pin is that loose, you may need a 2x. My current Pro Hunter took a 2x right out of the box and before I ever shot it. You can go back to post #28 and check out what I do to my Encore platform rifles. A TIGHT hinge pin is a must......

I really dont think I need the trigger work. I had my smith do the trigger when I bought the gun new. It's just under 3 lbs which I like for hunting. Though it does have a tiny bit of creep.

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

I shoot the triumph T/C with the 250 grain shockwaves and 3 pellets of Triple seven with a Leupold Ultimate slam sitting on top of it.... I have found that with a clean, cold barrel the first shot for whatever reason is at 100 yards is always 3 inches right and 2 inches low!! From then on it dead on at 100 yards and the bullet impact are exactly on with the dots in the scope... well it's not enough to miss a deer/bear or any other four foot animal out to 150 on a clean barrel I always foul my barrel the day before hunting and leave it that way until the season is done... MAKE sure the hole in the breech plug is wide open BUT that's another story...

 

[ENCORE]

I checked back in a couple of my target photos and found one where I intentionally wanted to show why I always foul my barrel with at least two rounds, prior to hunting. As this picture shows, my first and second shot out of a clean barrel do not hit P.O.A. Granted, its probably acceptable for a close range shot but, if my first shot may happen to be at 200yds, it really changes the game in where that first bullet may go.

 

[crappiedan]

I just changed my factory hinge pin to the bellm 2x pin. It went in pretty tight. I can tell the action is alot stiffer to close, I hope its not terrible to change now. I also weighed out some bh209 charges to try in my rifle. Hope I see some improvement!

 

[Tracker12]

I will be anxiously waiting for your results. My Encore was always a MOA gun until recently when the groups have started to open up. I am wondering if the hinge pin is getting a little loose and causing the groups to suffer a little.

After reading about keeping the breech plug clean and using a 1/8th drill bit I decided to check my again. I tried to use the 1/8 and it seemed like it was to big. I dropped down to the next size and as I started to clean it out I realized I had quite a bit of crud in there. 1/8th now fits fine. Be interested to see if that makes a difference in accuracy.

 

[ENCORE]

I will be anxiously waiting for your results. My Encore was always a MOA gun until recently when the groups have started to open up. I am wondering if the hinge pin is getting a little loose and causing the groups to suffer a little.

After reading about keeping the breech plug clean and using a 1/8th drill bit I decided to check my again. I tried to use the 1/8 and it seemed like it was to big. I dropped down to the next size and as I started to clean it out I realized I had quite a bit of crud in there. 1/8th now fits fine. Be interested to see if that makes a difference in accuracy.

Hinge Pin.............. If your pin moves by pushing on it with your finger or a tool, its WAY TO LOOSE. If when you open the rifle, you can feel ANY side to side movement, its to loose. If your hinge pin inserts with just a few taps from a hammer and punch, its probably to loose. You shouldn't have to DRIVE it in with a 2# hammer but, it should take multipal taps and be TIGHT while inserting it. A loose or poorly fitting hinge pin can make a significent difference in the size of your groups. If its loose, replace it with either a 1x or maybe it will take a 2x. Make it tight and eliminate that contributing factor.