Trouble with first shot accuracy with T/C Prohunter 50 cal.

[ENCORE]

Been thinking about fliers and wondering just how many may actually have UNEXPLAINED fliers. I defined questions that I asked, making sure that those who responded, understood what UNEXPLAINED ment.

UNEXPLAINED FLIERS was defined as a bullet that you have no explaination as to why it shot like it did or completely missed the POA. In other words, trying to take the "human factor" out of the question as best as possible.

Twentynine (29) people responded to my questions....

ONLY ONE (1) reported that they expierence unexplained fliers. Which amounted to 3.7% of the respondents.

40.7% (13) of the respondents, reported that they NEVER have filers what so ever of any kind.

37% (10) reported that it was extremely rare that they ever had a flier. Most contribute it to a number of "human" contributing factors, associated with the shooter. Things such as poor or improper trigger pull, poor body position, inconsistent loading, and even down to breathing.

18.5% (5) reported that they only have fliers when shooting a specific bullet.

I know that there can be many ways to interpet the results of my questions but, its pretty clear that of the shooters that responed, only one shooter expierenced unexplained fliers.

One can be relatively certain that those that have fliers when only shooting a specific bullet, don't shoot that bullet after recognizing that fact. If one considers that, then one could imagine that close to 60% of shooters NEVER have unexplained fliers.

That would leave the 37% that say they may have an unexplained flier but, RARELY. I would never go out on a limb so far as to suggest what percentage of those shooters may have actually caused the flier themselves but, eliminating the human factor would greatly reduce the percentage.

Quite interesting when only one of twenty nine shooters have UNEXPLAINED fliers.

 

[WRG]

Try this load, my Prohunter loves this load out to 200 yards 1.5" MOA.

110 grs. "by volume" BH209 - 250 gr. Barnes TMZ - Harvester crushed rib sabot "Yellow" for boat tail bullets - Win 209 primer for shotshell.

The key with this bullet is the Harvester Sabot.

Measure your load by volume first then weigh it on a digital scale. Should be around 72.5grs. Whatever you get make sure all your loads are excactly the same.

Consistantcy...consistancy...consistantcy!!!!!

 

[longbowelk]

I just posted my own thread about a conical bullet I found, go to prbullet.com & look at the Conical Ultimate 1, also, under his questions he gives lots of info on elk bullets, etc. I have no experience with them but there are review on the site. I just wanted to find out more about this conical if it wa solid lead or whatever. Also, I tried the Great Plains conical 385grs. I didn't have time to put them through a big test but 1st report is they did good in my New Frontier inline. I just got a new CVA Optima and the bullet is too tight. Check the bullet and reviews out at Cabelas.com. The reviews said the CVA was too tight. Tstick

 

[ENCORE]

Try this load, my Prohunter loves this load out to 200 yards 1.5" MOA.

110 grs. "by volume" BH209 - 250 gr. Barnes TMZ - Harvester crushed rib sabot "Yellow" for boat tail bullets - Win 209 primer for shotshell.

The key with this bullet is the Harvester Sabot.

Measure your load by volume first then weigh it on a digital scale. Should be around 72.5grs. Whatever you get make sure all your loads are excactly the same.

Consistantcy...consistancy...consistantcy!!!!!

The coversion is .7 for BH209. I shoot 75grs by weight, which comes out to 107.1grs volume. ( 75w/.7= 107.1grs by volume) 110 grs by volume would be 77 grs by weight. (110v *.7=77grs by weight) MAXIMUM charge would be (120v *.7=84grs by weight), which is the listed MAXIMUM per Western.

FAQs « Blackhorn 209 FAQ #5

Pro Hunters just love the load that you shoot. What's even better yet, the Barnes bullets never fail.

 

[meatyrem]

Elite Muzzleloader...... It works the same for me but, I too can't understand why someone has flyiers from every rifle that they shoot, when shooting sabots. I know a lot of people and talk with many more, that shoot muzzleloaders with sabots and unless they're shooting a Powerbelt bullet, they don't report flyiers.

Here in Michigan many hunters, especially in the shotgun only zone, are switching over to muzzleloaders because of their accuracy, range and consistency. Many in the rifle zone are starting to choose the muzzleloader over the centerfire, because they have confidence in them. The most commonly found bullets that shoot the best and with the tightest groups from MI shooters, are the Barnes 250gr TMZ, Shockwave 250gr and the SST 250gr. The Barnes 290gr TMZ or the T-EZ are also shot by many.

My Pro Hunter will shoot better than I can shoot it, as I'm getting older and my eyes aren't getting any better. Its becoming easier to recognize when I'm having a "good" day vs a so, so day. But one thing that I was taught many years ago, was to be consistent with everything, which is why I convert my charges to weight, then weigh each charge. With each charge being identical, it leaves me with just two possible contributing factors, seating pressure and of course the shooter (me). There's no "standard" when it comes to volume measures and there can be considerable differences in charges from one to another. Even using the same volume measure, you can vary your charges up to almost 10grs. by weight. This can be a significent contributing factor.

I love this stuff........ Good shoot'n by the way

If I do this right??? This is how my rifle will shoot consistently at 150yds, if I do my part (a good day)...

ENCORE
Pro-hunter
The load I started out with was
200gr shock wave
Blackthorn 209 120grs
Win 209
I could consistantly put three shots in a 1/2" group at 100yds
I tried the win triple 7 primers and this was the only time I had hang fires then went back to the standard win 209 primers. After I ran out of the 200gr shockwaves I got more but they seemed to have a different shade of blue and accuracy went south. They loaded with almost no force too as the earlier ones took a significant amount of force to load witch was good.
I recently switched to the Barnes 250gr TMZ. I have yet to see how they shoot. Hopefully soon.

 

[WRG]

Like I said try the Harvester sabot. The barnes sabot is smooth and not as thick and will hang onto the bullet for 25-40 yards down range. The Harvester is a crushed rib sabot and a little thicker resulting in a more consistant buttercup that falls off the bullet in under 10 yards. The longer a sabot hangs onto a bullet the longer it takes that bullet to stabilize. The pedals of a sabot are like a parachute however if one or two side bend back more than the others or even break off, it will cant the bullet in flight making it more differcult for the bullet to stabilze. These Harvester sabots are a "consistant" uniform buttercup like shape with no broken pedals when you pick them up down range. With my load they actually drop off after 8 yards. I have done extensive testing with all sorts of sabots.

It does make a world of differance in the accuracy. Try it for yourself

50 sabots for $9 bucks.

50 Cal Crushed Rib Sabot for .451 Cal Boattail Bullet

 

[WRG]

One tool that I use which adds to the type of accuracy I am getting is using a "Spin Jag" to seat the bullet. It allows the sabot to follow the rifling as it makes it way down the barrel instead of scoring the sides of the sabot. The Harvester Sabots are crushed rib to better grab the rifling. I use one on my ball starter and one on the ram rod. T/C sells the right spinning jag for the Barnes TMZ that is deep enough for the pointed bullet.

Consistant seating pressure is another key to consistant accuracy as well.

Hope this helps

 

[meatyrem]

Something to consider with the tmz to give another option. It's not like it's all that expensive to try the crush rib either. It would be nice to once again get those groups that measure .54" at 100 yds. That's something that makes you feel good

 

[walkin]

First post on this forum, you guys all have good ideas.It's nice to have somewhere to learn this stuff, trial and error takes a long time. My pro hunter shoots good, moa. Mike and Kurt Bellm have good info and good parts, have helped my gun a lot. Oversize hinge pin and better springs , trigger down to 2.5 intead of 5.5lbs. Spin jag is awsome as are the harvester sabots, still trying to get the bh209 dialed in, I'll try weighing the charges , cant hurt.Thanks for the info . Chris

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Lotsa ways to skin that cat here.

I have a lowly black diamond stainless and I got my first kill this year with it.
I use a 300 gr sst in old style hdy sabot
110gr/volume fff 777
rws musket cap-- played with 209's-- not in this one
fiber optic factory sights

When I had a 1x tc "scope" on it I stopped load developement when I got to 5 shot 1.5" grouping at 100 yards. that was with BOTH ff AND fff powders in the same group. My gun doesn't care as long as the powder charge and seating pressure are similar.
My brother and father are using the powerbelt in their encore(older 26") and are sub 2 moa with 777 and a 209. I don't know load specifics, but those are the basic components. Thedy use fiber sights too as ND doesn't allow scopes on muzzys.

 

[ENCORE]

Lotsa ways to skin that cat here.

...........
My brother and father are using the powerbelt in their encore.........

Oh my God! Powerbelts out of an Encore? That's breaking the 11th commandment and the First when it comes to muzzleloader projectiles in modern in-lines, especially the Encore platform rifles.

I get a handful of different monthly magazines, most of which the subscription price is extremely cheap. I'm really not in the mood to pay for a magazine that has 60 pages and 57 of them are advertisements and the 58th, the index. So I wait until the publication starts to beg, then get it cheap.

I recieved an Outdoor Life today (June/July pg. 86) and although the writer was speaking about centerfires, I thought the article was worth the pointers. Especially since the person that shared his accuracy secrets, was United States Air Force Staff SGT. George Reinas. SGT. Reinas is a sniper instructor and provided 10 tips for shooting. It was tip #2 that may relate.

SHOOT DIRTY. "Snipers prefer to shoot dirty guns. In other words, we will not clean our rifles for 200 to 300 rounds..."

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Oh my God! Powerbelts out of an Encore? That's breaking the 11th commandment and the First when it comes to muzzleloader projectiles in modern in-lines, especially the Encore platform rifles.

SHOOT DIRTY. "Snipers prefer to shoot dirty guns. In other words, we will not clean our rifles for 200 to 300 rounds..."

They aren't financed by me, so I really don't have a say. And they have worked with sst's and other sabots, but don't like shoving a sabot over fouling at twenty below here in ND in December when our muzzleloader season is.

As far as shooting dirty, I have to with my 44 and lead bulets. My ruger srh doesn't do as well for the first hundred or two. After a couple of hundred shots with the same load, I can hit a clay bird every shot offhand at 100 yards with it and have seriously peeved at least one geltleman with a 222 and a varmint scope at 220 meters with it. We were shooting at a clay bird chunk at 220meters in a heck of a gusty wind(no wind meter but 30mph would be conservative at gust) , and he wasn't any better at 220 than I was with the 44. He got me after about 15 shots and finally got it.

 

[sirryan]

just recently purchased a pro hunter. Something does not feel right and I Am am a frequent rifle shooter. I even sent back one scope thinking that may be the problem . I just mounted it and haven't shot it. These stories are making me nervous so close to opening of the season. Is there any way to tell if I have one of these barrels? Also, for those of you having any good results what powder and bullet are you using?

 

[meatyrem]

There aren't many barrels that are "bad". They are few and far between. I've had three encore .50 cals and all shot great. My last one is a pro-hunter and would put three shots inside a 1/2 " at 100yds. The only way is to shoot it. But chances are I doubt you'll have a problem. I have not heard of anyone I know who has problems with them. As far as I'm concerned they are top notch. Like with anything there will be one out if a couple hundred that may have defects or a flaw. My barrel looks as if it hasent been shot either. My combo was 200gr shockwaves win 209 with blackthorn powder 120gr. Produced 1/2 " group. But have since changed to the Barnes. But have not shot those as of yet. Good shooting