Thoughts on 264WM vs 6.5 PRC for new rifle build/buy?

[benchracer]

Seems like the consensus is to go with the 264, which is where I was leaning.

Will be doing some research, but in my "dream world", I'd like to get the 147 ELD (or wallet forbid, the A-Tip) going around 2950-3000 in a 24" barrel. From what you've all said, this should be easily doable at less than max.

Seems like typical COAL for the 264 is shorter than the 300WM, despite the same SAAMI maximum. If this is the case, then I'll likely rebarrel my savage, as it only has a 3.5" mag box, which limits the 300WM to single loading. Maybe I can keep a 264 in the 3.5" mag, and still be able to run near the lands if needed.

Could someone measure the OAL and tip length of the 147 ELD and/or 153 A-Tip (unlikely, I know) if you have one? Would be nice to get some numbers on stability for twist rate.

The .264WM has enough case volume that deep seating the bullet isn't a negative. Even with bulky, slow burning powders, you wont run out of case capacity before you reach pressure limits. IOW, long OAL's are not necessary for maximum performance. If you have enough chamber/mag length to seat the bullet with the ogive above the case mouth, you are good to go.

I don't have 147's to measure for you, but JBM ballistics has the OAL of that bullet listed at 1.440, with a tip length of .142". Anecdotally, I have fired that bullet from a 9 twist Swede, in cool temps @ 3500 ft asl, and it stabilized well enough to hit point forward and left round holes in the target. A good friend of mine has a Savage Target rifle in .260 Rem. The 147's work very well from the 8 twist barrel on this rifle @ 2750ish.

ETA: I am shooting up my supply of 140 AMAX's. OAL is .010 off the lands @ 3.320". Running 3130ish with 66.7 grains of Retumbo in the factory 26" 9 twist barrel. This is a very mild load.

 

[wildcat455]

Why are you comparing a short action cartridge to a long action? If you are doing that then you need to throw in the 26 Nosler and 6.5/300 Wby alongside the .264 Winny...

Let's get the Sherman Short boys in here as well.

Hahaha!

OP's prerogative, and no. He doesn't "need" to include anything he doesn't want to.

 

[entoptics]

Why are you comparing a short action cartridge to a long action? If you are doing that then you need to throw in the 26 Nosler and 6.5/300 Wby alongside the .264 Winny...

Cause I have a long action Savage as a donor candidate, and I have several hundred brass for 264.

If I was going at this from scratch, I'd likely ignore all the long action 6.5s and go with the PRC, which is pretty much ideal for my needs.

 

[wildcat455]

I like both the 6.5 and the 30 PRC.
I may even have both of them one day, but I'll always have my Win Mags.

I Also like the 26 and 30 Nosler. The only thing keeping me from them is my 264 and my 300.
Too much history and success to jump ship now.

 

[adam32]

Cause I have a long action Savage as a donor candidate, and I have several hundred brass for 264.

If I was going at this from scratch, I'd likely ignore all the long action 6.5s and go with the PRC, which is pretty much ideal for my needs.

You answered your own question...you already have a long action to use, so stick with a long action cartridge...

 

[vancewalker007]

If you build either make sure the chamber gets throated to allow you to seat the bullets of your choice far enough forward to keep them out of the powder column, then make sure your mag is set up to allow the longer rounds to feed. I'm sure the SAAMI spec on the .264 WM is shorter than you're gonna want. The SAAMI spec on the PRC is set up for long bullets, but you can stretch it some as well. We stretched the 2 PRCs we've recently built out a to a little over 3.1.

 

[Deleted member 25294]

HAAHAHAA!!!

BELT HATER!!!
We get it. The belt confuses you, confounds you even!!

Just having some fun!

Ha ha
You got me I'm an out of the closet belt HATER.
I got tired of the sizing issues, had trouble with a 7 RM and 300 wm bulging above the belt causing hard chambering.
I know I know, its all in my head and I just don't know how to hand load..
Whatever carry on with what you like.

The 6.5 PRC is a better choice for a shorter barrel


Necked down is the same operation as sizing between firings, which is required with the PRC, just like any other cartridge in existence. It doesn't require neck turning, only a case trim. Also a standard reloading operation. Again, NO ADVANTAGE.

If the absence of a belt is a selling point to you, be one with your bad self. It is clearly not a disqualifier to the OP.

I neck 7 saum to 6.5 saum and definitely need to neck turn to remove the donut that forms near the shoulder junction.
After sizing down I run it through a .264 expander mandrel which pushes the donut out, I then neck turn to remove it.
It's a process bro..
I also neck 270 wsm up to 7mm, it too requires neck turning because it thickens at the shoulder junction causing accuracy issues.

I just can't get over the silly reaction that guys on here get when someone suggests belted cases can be a pain.
It's like a F___ing cult...

 

[WYO300RUM]

Holy smokes. That's ~150-200 fps faster than the 264WM data for a 140 gr from Nosler's and Hodgden's websites. 3000 fps in 6.5 seems high too based on the same sources.

If that's the case, I'd be inclined to run the 264 at mild speeds around 3000 fps or so.

I've had loads go 3006 to 3012 with 140 gr. In PRC w/27 in. Barrel .not counting integral brake its actually 25 in..pressure was fine. Not max load.

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

Seems another "selling" point would be the overall kindness, good nature, and helpfulness of fellow 264 Win Mag shooters.

Ohh and don't let anyone tell you the belt is worthless and does nothing. That's ignorance talking. It's first job is to set headspace on initial firing of the case. It's second job is to assist with headspace in a symbiotic relationship with the shoulder.

Wow, someone that understands belts ! Cool ! !
I get so tired of all the beltless is better BS.
Of my 3 most favorite carts, 2 of them are belted.
However the 3rd ( 6.5 Creed) being beltless.
First 2 , the 458 Win And 416 Rem. Don't fit on the LRH forum.

That being said, unless the added velocity was Needed . I would opt for the PRC over the 264.

As the OP said he would probably get new 264 dies . Getting the PRC would only entail new brass.

I think both are great choices. Just depends on his planed uses.

When I had a 264 , custom rifle built on a Sako A V action . I wasn't in a situation to reload so I shot lots of yellow box WW ammo thru it. The rifle was litterly a tack driver. But was too nice to throw in a skiff and keep in a tent camp long term. So I traded it off. I had it from 80-82 .

 

[Cold Trigger Finger]

I just can't get over the silly reaction that guys on here get when someone suggests belted cases can be a pain.
It's like a F___ing cult...[/QUOTE]


I dunno, I've been reloading belted cases since 1985 and I've never come across a problem caused by the belt.
I've tried to figure out what all the fuss is , wondered if I was just real dense ect. But after loading much more than 10,000 rounds belted ammo in
500 A Sq
458 Lott
458 Win
416 Rem
416 Taylor
375 Whby
375 H&H
338 Win
300 Win
7 mm Rem
And not having a single problem that was caused by the belt.
I think the cult thing sits firmly on the hips of the belt haters .

 

[Dialing Long Distance]

I would think your options would be 264 mag or 26 Nosler. If ya need to get dies and brass for the PRC, ya might as well get dies and brass for the 26, it's like a PRC on steroids. PRC is a great cartridge, but the 26 will push heavy bullets a bit better. In your case, being that you already have brass and you're partial to the 264WM, I'd say go with that. I have a 7 mag, and in my experience, I've had great luck with accuracy in belted magnums. Just my $.02....

 

[wildcat455]

You gotta like your fellow reloader even if he doesn't like your belted case.
LOL!
Doesn't really matter if he gets it or not, or if he thinks you're in a Supersecret belted case cult.

We all do what we do!

 

[Deleted member 25294]

The belt thing should be it's own thread, or maybe not...
Not trying to trash these cases entirely but there are very REAL issues that need addressed with belted mags.
Why else would the Willis die have been created?
I'm not imagining the case bulge I experienced above the belt, or the case head separations that I experienced after several firings.
If you've got a belted mag then great, but if it can be avoided then why the heck not??
Here's one article addressing this
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/ammunition_st_beltedcasebull_201007/99146

 

[Aldon]

264 Win Mag.

No compromise