yes sir. you can’t kill a deer with nothing less than a 338. actually i think that is marginal.
This is whats wrong with hunting today
- Thread starter southpa
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
yes sir. you can’t kill a deer with nothing less than a 338. actually i think that is marginal.
This is precisely what I'm getting at with the thread. I'm all for pushing what you believe in and what works for you but we should be correctly representing our beliefs with relevant and fair facts. That way our audience can take that information and use it to extrapolate on. I think it works both ways though. The man in the video is partially to blame but as an audience, we also need to take some responsibility and do our parts by making honest efforts to validate whatever info we decide to believe or base decisions on.
DJ Morrison
Well-Known Member
Im headed to Alaska this fall and im trying to decide which rifle to take? The 17 HMR in a savage or my ruger precision in 17 HMR? I figure if i sneak up while he's snoozing like big boars do, when their tummies are full from eating the 22 creedmoor hunter, I can stick the muzzle in his ear and dispatch my trophy....who needs to even argue with people like this? We, the members of LRH, know better than most about ethical hunting, or we should, but i do agree with the quote from Twain.....
Make sure to use the beefed up hollow point version of the 17HMR bullet for best penetration.
I like the 25/06 fine. It’s not a popular cartridge in my area. And I have limited experience with it. I use the Grendel for depredation with 123 eldms and ssts and it excels at it. I had a blood dog and would get called regularly back in my younger days. I do not care for the 6mm cartridges. I developed a large distaste for them years ago and there are other cartridges I prefer to use. What I saw were long blood trailing jobs and poor blood trails. Also lost animals. I always shot a 270 then and did not have those issues. For regular hunting I prefer 65/06, 270, and 308. 7mms are good as well.
In heavily wooded areas, I want to make shoulder shots with 243s, puts them on the ground or they go 10 feet or less.
Calvin45
Well-Known Member
Can’t really argue with another persons experience. I don’t really like the .243 or any .22 cal for big game hunting either for these same reasons BUT will happily acknowledge the great success I’ve seen others have with the .243 in my neck of the woods. There’s an older lady I know, small framed and has had shoulder surgery, has had no trouble taking many elk and moose over the years with her .243…she is a good hunter first and a good shot second, doesn’t take shots beyond 200 yards and only pulls the trigger on broadside double lung shots…nothing lives long with both lungs taken out, simple as that. Plain old Winchester power points, 100 grain. For the longest time here it was the minimum legal big game caliber and that always seemed appropriate to me…yes a .22lr to the head kills things too but a sensible minimum should be a cartridge that can still deliver humane kills at ordinary hunting ranges with conventional broadside chest shots, not one that requires a CNS hit to kill fast. And the .243 can and does do this with the right bullet. I still don’t like it and I even have one!
. It’s just a lot less forgiving..,less forgiving of range, less forgiving of varying body mass on a given species, less forgiving of bullet choice, less forgiving of shot placement - this one is a big deal to me, every single thread like this there’s always about a dozen people that just repeat the mantra “shot placement is everything” as if nothing else is important and give the matter no further thought. Ima come out and say it:
Shot placement IS NOT EVERYTHING!!!! There I said it!!
Shot placement absolutely is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, I’d never question the obvious truth that a well placed shot with a .22 creed is a more humane killer than gut shooting some poor creature with a .300 win mag, - and there’s no doubt in my mind that the odds of gut shooting an animal increases when a person honestly can’t handle or is afraid of the recoil of a given rifle, no need to be macho man and prove anything to anyone, shoot the biggest cartridge THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY SHOOT WELL and be honest with yourself about that - I don’t think anybody would question that (though human stupidity is amazing at times). But shot placement is not the only thing. Specifically, when you’re shooting a bigger cartridge with more horsepower, wounding capability, a quality projectile, and penetrating ability, the amount of shots you can effectively take that would be “good shot placement” does in fact go up dramatically. There are absolutely shot angles on game sizes at distances that I wouldn’t hesitate to pull the trigger with my .300 win mag and wouldn’t even think about trying with my .243. Heck a lot of the old school ivory hunters piled up stacks of elephants by braining them with cartridges like .303 British and 7mm Mauser.,,,doesn’t make those “elephant guns” anymore than head shooting a deer with a .22lr makes the .22lr a bonafide “big game hunting rifle”.
So shot placement is obviously the most important thing, but not all cartridges offer the same viable shot placement opportunities. That’s my take anyway.
Last edited:
Knight
Well-Known Member
Back in the day the Eskimos have used 22 long rifles to slay Polar Bears. Before that they used spears,. Just saying..
Calvin45
Well-Known Member
Yup…if someone you loved was going up against a polar bear and you were responsible for equipping them appropriately and had your choice of any weapon would you toss them a spear or a .22lr and wish them good luck?
Just saying…
Don’t forget to toss a a bottle of ketchup to the bear
There is nothimg righr about that video. For starters when you start your video basically complaining about the recpil of a 22 center fire. It is time fpr ypu to find another passion. Maybe go try chess. The 6.5 Creed ito ,e is a minimum for longer range hunring. now they are trying to push a 22 cal. He said the that bear only ran 30 yds why not stay on it and show us. He shows the damage under the skun but why not the lungs. A video like this is only ammo for the anti hunting crowd. A 243 Win. or the 6.5 Creed were what are minimums killing bears at 400yds. not a 22 cal. That is my 2 cents.
Casscade
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2005
- Messages
- 411
22 for big game hunting is a no go for me personally unless it’s all I have, and in that case I can make due with pretty much anything. And of course I know it’ll kill with shot placement, most get that and it’s beside the point. With that apparently fair chase and ethics is a thing is the past but so be it.
Fact is, for me as 22 cals go, along with some other small cal’s as well and I’ve used many, on big game in a variety of conditions they simply do no give consistent exits that meet expectations, regardless of bullet being used. Theres only so much that can be done with such light weight small diameter projectiles. Bigger calibers have been and are more consistent in my experience, again, especially in adverse conditions or less that perfect placement/front shoulder hits.
So I say again, apples to oranges comparisons as usual, it’s the best way one can make many of the new calibers look better, note I’m talking performance here, not about belts, shoulder angles or match chambers. That’s also assuming people don’t reload and run saami chambers only, so basically the masses is who they’re marketing. Granted it’s great marketing and advertising, but almost always comes with the typical apples to oranges comparisons, almost has to be to have a sales pitch.
Make no mistake, I love the creed and the prc rounds for what they are, bless Hornady for doing what they’re doing and advancing things for new and old shooters and the sport, but the promotion of unrealistic expectations is where I have issue.
Many have deemed these in one way or another as magical rounds or some form of Godstrike rounds and go on to promote unrealistic expectations, for new inexperienced shooters that usually leads to bad practices, wounded game, and lost confidence.
And as to modern innovation today, I’ll sum up most of what I see and not just in this sport, tracing the Mona Lisa doesn’t make you an artist, as what happens to often today.
The new stuff is still great rounds, if nothing else because I don’t have to reload to get decent ammo, match chambers and twist for heavy bullets, but performance wise, nothing new nor special, been there don’t that.
Fact is, for me as 22 cals go, along with some other small cal’s as well and I’ve used many, on big game in a variety of conditions they simply do no give consistent exits that meet expectations, regardless of bullet being used. Theres only so much that can be done with such light weight small diameter projectiles. Bigger calibers have been and are more consistent in my experience, again, especially in adverse conditions or less that perfect placement/front shoulder hits.
So I say again, apples to oranges comparisons as usual, it’s the best way one can make many of the new calibers look better, note I’m talking performance here, not about belts, shoulder angles or match chambers. That’s also assuming people don’t reload and run saami chambers only, so basically the masses is who they’re marketing. Granted it’s great marketing and advertising, but almost always comes with the typical apples to oranges comparisons, almost has to be to have a sales pitch.
Make no mistake, I love the creed and the prc rounds for what they are, bless Hornady for doing what they’re doing and advancing things for new and old shooters and the sport, but the promotion of unrealistic expectations is where I have issue.
Many have deemed these in one way or another as magical rounds or some form of Godstrike rounds and go on to promote unrealistic expectations, for new inexperienced shooters that usually leads to bad practices, wounded game, and lost confidence.
And as to modern innovation today, I’ll sum up most of what I see and not just in this sport, tracing the Mona Lisa doesn’t make you an artist, as what happens to often today.
The new stuff is still great rounds, if nothing else because I don’t have to reload to get decent ammo, match chambers and twist for heavy bullets, but performance wise, nothing new nor special, been there don’t that.
Huntnful
Well-Known Member
Here's a good video showing performance. It looks like the little girl makes a fairly decent shot around the 6 minute mark I think. A hair low, but really nothing crazy far off the mark. When the buck is relocated, and now bedded you can see the sun shining on him. So it wasn't just a few seconds later I wouldn't believe.
I have a 22 CM, and I would shoot a buck with it. But the video definitely shows the margin of error is small, because that was not a terrible shot by any means. This instance specifically would have benefitted and likely resulted in a dead buck with the first shot, had the bullet provided a larger wound channel.
I also think it's kind of dumb to base your whole persona and channel around a cartridge lol. That was a bit extra for me.
I have a 22 CM, and I would shoot a buck with it. But the video definitely shows the margin of error is small, because that was not a terrible shot by any means. This instance specifically would have benefitted and likely resulted in a dead buck with the first shot, had the bullet provided a larger wound channel.
I also think it's kind of dumb to base your whole persona and channel around a cartridge lol. That was a bit extra for me.
