The Most DISSAPOINTING Bullet there ever was...

[Bravo 4]

Sierra Match Kings. They shoot great but don't shoot an animal with them… save them for paper and steel..

This is why its best to go with your own experiences, rather than what you hear on the internet.

I agree Yobuck! Because the 300 grain .338 caliber Matchkings have been my favorite go to performers (in external and terminal ballistics) for over 20 years! Killed lots of critters big to small, near to far with them. My buddy would say the same with the 250 grainers.
Smaller caliber versions of this bullet I've had mixed results and don't use.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

I'm always surprised to hear about bullet failures on game animals. I've been hunting for more years than I'll admit and have never identified a single bullet failure. I was a little disappointed in the Sierra GameKings because they often shed their jackets, but they still dispatched critters reliably. Early Barnes bullets always zipped through while occasionally causing no reaction on the animal until they dropped, but they dropped.

I guess I've just been lucky because everything that I've taken from mouse-to-moose seems to have been reliably dropped by one of 20 different bullets that I've used.

 

[cabelasken]

I have had only two failures, both 140 gr nosler partitions out of a 284 winchester. The bullets literally grenaded inside the animals, one a 110 lb mouflon and the other a 125 lb axis doe. The mouflon was hit low in the ribs and after that the bullet came apart into 15 to 20 little projectiles - none bigger than 6 grains - I found 7 pieces that were between 3 and 6 grains. Same on the doe - no exit wound but many little pieces throughout the body. Both died on the spot, but those animals being as little as they were, the expectation was to find an exit wound somewhere.
I also had issues with early Barnes bullets and it seemed the first few boxes contained bullets of various shapes and sizes. Apparently their fabrication equipment was in need of fine tuning and adjustment or replacement. That was before the turn of the century. Since then and with their introduction of the TSX bullet, things improved - so much so that now I find their hunting bullets to be of target like quality and their performance on game to outstanding,

 

[Pauleye]

As someone has written before. At what point of the animal's demise did the bullet fail?

 

[del2les]

I'm always surprised to hear about bullet failures on game animals. I've been hunting for more years than I'll admit and have never identified a single bullet failure. I was a little disappointed in the Sierra GameKings because they often shed their jackets, but they still dispatched critters reliably. Early Barnes bullets always zipped through while occasionally causing no reaction on the animal until they dropped, but they dropped.

I guess I've just been lucky because everything that I've taken from mouse-to-moose seems to have been reliably dropped by one of 20 different bullets that I've used.

While mostly good results, back in the 90's, I had a couple of bad experiences with old X bullets and failures to expand. One load was their old 85gr .257" loaded in a 25-06, an on a 150yd broadside shot on a large whitetail doe. Upon impact, she left the area with little to no indication I had hit her, but I knew for a certainty I had. After much tracking with no blood and only a few hairs left in the bean field I shot her in, it took a lot of time and serious effort to recover her a long ways from the impact spot.

Upon recovering, I located the tiny entrance and exit of a perfect hit in her ribs, and upon examination during gutting and then skinning, it was like I had hit her with a .257" field point arrow with a little more damage on the lungs. If not for the large fields and thin woodlots, I may have lost her in our more usual hunting lands, river bottoms and swamps.

Below is the actual remaining box of those old 1990's "X" 85gr .257's, for after a couple of failures, I ceased loading that bullet.

 

[del2les]

As someone has written before. At what point of the animal's demise did the bullet fail?

When you track for hours before finding or you never recover them.

We've killed game that had been previously wounded by other hunters or even by one of our group. Some of those were due to lack of penetration causing serious shoulder wounds or just the opposite. We have also found dead game days after poor bullet performance.

 

[birddog 68]

Some of those were due to lack of penetration causing serious shoulder wounds or just the opposite. We have also found dead game days after poor bullet performance.

This is what I was referring to in my last post. Some think you can do a shoulder shot with ordinary cup & core bullets and not have problems. Yes it'll work most of the time but I know I'm keeping it off the shoulder if using c&c.
Yes there's bullet failure occasionally but if someone is shoulder shooting with the wrong bullet I call it shooter failure.
And I have no problem shoulder shooting, IF I'm using bonded or mono bullets.

 

[del2les]

This is what I was referring to in my last post. Some think you can do a shoulder shot with ordinary cup & core bullets and not have problems. Yes it'll work most of the time but I know I'm keeping it off the shoulder if using c&c.
Yes there's bullet failure occasionally but if someone is shoulder shooting with the wrong bullet I call it shooter failure.
And I have no problem shoulder shooting, IF I'm using bonded or mono bullets.

I know what you are saying, but typically, one would expect most bullets designed for and marketed as medium game bullets to penetrate a Whitetail shoulder with no problem, and of course, many millions have. But sometimes, especially decades past, there were failures. Some bullets were worse than others, and some of those were improved into today's versions and some are no longer with us.

The old WW 150gr SilverTip comes to mind, for it was my brother's and uncle's favorite 30-06 load decades ago. It killed a lot of deer and other, but upon recovery, almost always produced a very mangled bullet. On one medium 4x3 buck, that old SiverTip broke the shoulder blade and basically disintegrated causing a bad wound that required tracking and then a final shot to the neck.

Today's bullet are much better than some bullets of old, but in some cases, it took a few failures to force those improvements.

 

[manitou]

Barnes TTSX.
Very accurate, bad terminal performance for me.

 

[Calvin45]

I know what you are saying, but typically, one would expect most bullets designed for and marketed as medium game bullets to penetrate a Whitetail shoulder with no problem, and of course, many millions have. But sometimes, especially decades past, there were failures. Some bullets were worse than others, and some of those were improved into today's versions and some are no longer with us.

The old WW 150gr SilverTip comes to mind, for it was my brother's and uncle's favorite 30-06 load decades ago. It killed a lot of deer and other, but upon recovery, almost always produced a very mangled bullet. On one medium 4x3 buck, that old SiverTip broke the shoulder blade and basically disintegrated causing a bad wound that required tracking and then a final shot to the neck.

Today's bullet are much better than some bullets of old, but in some cases, it took a few failures to force those improvements.

Not all cup and cores are created equal either of course and it's just a matter of matching sectional density, impact velocity, and game resistance as much as it is a matter of bullet construction. I think there's a lot of potential situations where outdated cup and core bullet technology might kill faster and cleaner than a premium bullet as well.


For cup and cores I can say the 130 and 150 flat base hornady interlocks in a .270 are just awesome. For deer hunting at boring ranges I do not believe a premium bullet is going to kill as fast, certainly not any faster, and may be worse. And they get through deer shoulders just fine.

 

[cabelasken]

Barnes TTSX.
Very accurate, bad terminal performance for me.

My experience on over 40 animals has been just the opposite!! But - in almost all instances the shot placement has been perfect.

Barnes TTSX.
Very accurate, bad terminal performance for me.

 

[Calvin45]

My experience on over 40 animals has been just the opposite!! But - in almost all instances the shot placement has been perfect.

I'd be interested to know what shot placement both you and manitou have used, out of what cartridges and with what weight of Barnes bullet at what velocity haha.

I know I know, so needy for information over here!!!

But I've known people who have had nothing but good experiences with Barnes and people who have sworn never again after multiple bad ones. I do not beleive it's just because the ones having bad experiences are bad shots or hunters, as they've had great results with others.

My pet theory is that it is indeed about sectional density, impact velocity, and the kind of resistance met, especially with these monos. Case in point: 4 of my hunting friends of all different age groups LOVE the Barnes and have nothing but success stories on all manner of North American game. The cartridges have been

284 win with 140 tsx
300 win mag with 180 tsx
257 weatherby with 100 ttsx
6.5x55 Swede with 120 ttsx.

All of those cartridge bullet combos hit 3000 fps muzzle velocity, obviously the Weatherby's goes much faster still.

A fella I know refuses to use them in anything after witnessing fmj type wounds and LOOOOOOOONG tracking jobs, slow deaths, using meatsaver lung shots on deer size game with 180s out of a 308 Winchester. Way too high a sectional density in relation to how tough that bullet is and how light of resistance it was meeting at such a low impact velocity in comparison. He sings the undying praises of Nosler ballistic tips and hornady sst and such bullets and, given that he insists on using heavier bullets out of a .308 to only take broadside lung shots on deer sized game, it's no surprise!

With the Barnes it really does seem lighter and faster is better and try to drive them through as much resistance as possible, they're getting through.

 

[MagnumManiac]

Worst 2 performers on game for me have been Sierra and Berger.
Sierra 257 117g BTSP shoots lights out in both my 26-06 and 257 Weatherby, but on anything bigger than a fox they break apart and I had very poor performance at distance on Fallow deer, above 300 metres.
Same issue with Sierra 375 300g BTSP out of either my 375H&H or 375 Weatherby, simply break apart when needed. Both times, on Water Buff, the jacket was no where near the core, the core leaves the party real soon.

Any Berger OTM/EOL in any calibre has done weird things for me, especially when started above 3300fps. Weirdest thing is when they fail to expand correctly, one side gets a petal then the entire bullet tumbles. Had this happen at 660, 780 & 800 and recovered all of them bent like bananas and sideways in the animals, most were scrub bulls and the other was a donkey. I even had one pencil through on a Sambar deer at just under 400 the first year I used them. I had been cleaning tips the whole time too, so just WEIRD! I no longer use them.

Cheers.

 

[cabelasken]

I'd be interested to know what shot placement both you and manitou have used, out of what cartridges and with what weight of Barnes bullet at what velocity haha.

I know I know, so needy for information over here!!!

But I've known people who have had nothing but good experiences with Barnes and people who have sworn never again after multiple bad ones. I do not beleive it's just because the ones having bad experiences are bad shots or hunters, as they've had great results with others.

My pet theory is that it is indeed about sectional density, impact velocity, and the kind of resistance met, especially with these monos. Case in point: 4 of my hunting friends of all different age groups LOVE the Barnes and have nothing but success stories on all manner of North American game. The cartridges have been

284 win with 140 tsx
300 win mag with 180 tsx
257 weatherby with 100 ttsx
6.5x55 Swede with 120 ttsx.

All of those cartridge bullet combos hit 3000 fps muzzle velocity, obviously the Weatherby's goes much faster still.

A fella I know refuses to use them in anything after witnessing fmj type wounds and LOOOOOOOONG tracking jobs, slow deaths, using meatsaver lung shots on deer size game with 180s out of a 308 Winchester. Way too high a sectional density in relation to how tough that bullet is and how light of resistance it was meeting at such a low impact velocity in comparison. He sings the undying praises of Nosler ballistic tips and hornady sst and such bullets and, given that he insists on using heavier bullets out of a .308 to only take broadside lung shots on deer sized game, it's no surprise!

With the Barnes it really does seem lighter and faster is better and try to drive them through as much resistance as possible, they're getting through.

I use the 140 TSX in a 284 win - taken 6 or 7 animals with it. muzzle velocity was 2950 and took a 6x6 bull (my first) at about 125 yds middle of the lungs shot the bull ran straight at me and I could see blood spurting from both entrance and exit holes. The bull piled up 35 yds from where I stood - exit hole in hide had a perfect 4 petal shape. That was the furthest any animal has run after being hit by one of my shots. Taken 8 or 9 animals with 168 TTSX from a 300 WSM. One was shot diagonally from top of near hip to lower opposite shoulder. I was shooting from a cliff and trying to stop a 6x6 bull wounded by another hunter in our party. The bull went and stayed down but wasn't dead when we arrived. All other animals were poked someplace in the lungs or heart area. Longest shot has been 435 yds so impact velocity in all cases has been above 2250 FPS. I firmly believe impact velocity has a lot to do with the Barnes bullet performance and limit my range to about 1/4 mile. I have killed two other elk that were wounded by others in our party - I hate to see an animal lost. In my opinion if you are gonna use factory ammo, you should chose a bullet that is adequate for the task at hand - not for the perfect shot, but for the off angle shot that requires a bit of penetration..