The 'High Shoulder' shot of dreams

[memtb]

Using the "High Shoulder" as an aiming point with monolithics is subconsciously admitting that they aren't as effective as lead core bullets

They might have a higher BC or a cool name with a famous personality(s) pushing them BUT they aren't as reliable as lead core bullets.

Until something better comes along I'll stick with what works 100% if I do my job and strike the vital area of whatever I'm shooting at

Most anything will work, 100% of the time if used correctly.....from knitting needles to an F-250!

Also, a significant percentage of the people that advocate the high shoulder/spine shots are those using "fragile" cup and core bullets! Many that use mono bullets, advocate.....breaking bone (such as shoulder), on smaller big game, to assure expansion and fragmented bone penetrating vitals! memtb

 

[Barrelnut]

I hear a lot of high shoulder shooters say the aim point is 2/3 way up from the the bottom of the brisket. That seems about right in the drawing. That blue line is a small target though, especially on a relatively long range shot. When the shot is close, seems I never have time to adaquitly measure and aim like that.

 

[Longranger7mm]

I have used this shot a couple of times to good effect, but I'm still a lungs guy. Seems to me that it doesn't matter what caliber or what bullets are used if you take out the lungs they don't get to far away. And are usually dead when you get to them. That said when hunting in the mountains sometimes they can go just far enough to make recoveries difficult.

 

[Str8shooterTX]

I have used this shot a couple of times to good effect, but I'm still a lungs guy. Seems to me that it doesn't matter what caliber or what bullets are used if you take out the lungs they don't get to far away. And are usually dead when you get to them. That said when hunting in the mountains sometimes they can go just far enough to make recoveries difficult.

I agree on the fact that I will always consider shot placement with conditions and what the animal will give me. Depending on angle of the shot etc. I always prefer a double lung whether that is with a bow or firearm. But and it's a big but, I might be in a tree stand or a ground blind. Conditions matter.

 

[TexSavage]

I just came back from a whitetail hunt in the Pecos river area in southwest Texas. Used the "high shoulder" shot on four white tails, 2 bucks and 2 does. This was experimental for me as I have always been in the heart lung area. All deer were taken within 125 yards, which is not worthy of long range, but you take what's given to ya.

My aiming point was the intersection of middle of chest horizontal line and vertical line along front edge of leg. 300WSM using Berger 215 Hybrid, 2870 FPS at muzzle. Use same round for my long range and when I practice on prairie dogs (yep, almost vaporizes them).

So three of the four dropped DRT, never moved, fourth one ran 5-10 feet dropped dead. Common points: lost 1 shoulder on 3 of the 4, all 4 had exit holes out of rib area 3" to 3.5" in diameter, all had massive blood loss, all had damage to lungs and heart, barely nicked the spine on 2.

Last year used same load and shot 2 does high, which was a miss call on my part with a hold, Buck was 278 yards slightly high. All three dropped DRT, never ran, and massive blood loss.

Interesting experience and will try one more year before I consider moving to "high shoulder" all the time.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[Ingwe]

Wouldn't it be easier and more effective if you just used a lead core bullet and held for vitals instead of such a specific point of aim?

 

[WildRose]

The other thing to consider is "spinal shock." This occurs when the shock wave or hydrostatic pressure wave and concussion hits the spinal cord. This causes temporary paralysis.
Yes read it again TEMPORARY!!! If you don't sever the cord. They will recover in a few seconds to minutes and run/walk off. Make sure you take some vitals out with it. At least the aorta or vena cava so they died by blood loss and hemothorax.

Ok students class dismissed let's put
This stuff to the test!!!!
I'll be heading up to north Texas to shoot some
Pigs and deer and WildRose can show me how to clean them!!!!! Hahahahha

No argument from me. I lost a top ten B&C buck that way back around 1990. It was late and I was afraid of making a bad shot so I decided on a neck shot at around 400yds figuring "better a clean miss than to wound and lose him in the dark" because between the hogs and coyotes he'd be stripped clean before daylight in all likelihood.

Lined up the shot, pulled the trigger and he hit the ground like a ton of bricks.

As I get to him he kicks once and I almost put another into him but was afraid of damaging the rack. I set my gun down with an empty chamber a few feet away, and pulled out my knife.

Went to remove his testicles and suddenly he wakes up, kicks me about twenty times about the head, face, and shoulders and disappears into the dark.

Saw him three more times that season and during the next and he carried that scar just above the spine but never got within a half mile of him again. Eventually I think he died of old age because had he been killed it would have been huge news in the area.

 

[WildRose]

Here's a picture of the deer,

View attachment 111791

Average size 2-1/2yr old. He was definitely a scrapper, if you look closely you can see a point broken off at the base right beside my buddy's thumb. As a result his neck was relatively large for his body/antler size. Easy to see once the skin comes off, but pretty hard to judge on the hoof. Keep in mind that 6" measurement was made through muscle only. Optically, with the hair/hide that grows to 7.5", call it an even 8" from hair to the 'centre of spinal cord' on this deer.

I've been turning ungulates into steaks and roasts for 30years, so I have a pretty good understanding of the muscular and skeletal systems. Still, this guy surprised me! There is a lot more variation from animal to animal than we sometimes consider. Elk are even trickier due to the beard situation.

Understanding proportions is a good start, but most importantly, an animal is not dead until it's blood pressure is zero...

True, the animals overall condition can change the relative position of the spine to the top of the back. Fat, muscular, healthy animals will carry a lot more "finish" on top.

Thinner, older, unhealthy animals the spine is much closer to the skin but the easier it is to identify key markers like the distal end of the humerus and the ball joint in the shoulder.

African PH's talk about "the triangle" created by the point of the shoulder, the elbow and the scapula. A shot in that region will always be fatal unless the bullet fails to penetrate.

 

[Ingwe]

No argument from me. I lost a top ten B&C buck that way back around 1990. It was late and I was afraid of making a bad shot so I decided on a neck shot at around 400yds figuring "better a clean miss than to wound and lose him in the dark" because between the hogs and coyotes he'd be stripped clean before daylight in all likelihood.

Lined up the shot, pulled the trigger and he hit the ground like a ton of bricks.

As I get to him he kicks once and I almost put another into him but was afraid of damaging the rack. I set my gun down with an empty chamber a few feet away, and pulled out my knife.

Went to remove his testicles and suddenly he wakes up, kicks me about twenty times about the head, face, and shoulders and disappears into the dark.

Saw him three more times that season and during the next and he carried that scar just above the spine but never got within a half mile of him again. Eventually I think he died of old age because had he been killed it would have been huge news in the area.

Damm that's a terrible but funny story at the same time

 

[motrapper]

I have experienced this 2 times each Buck looked like it was slammed to the ground by the Hammer of Thor. The first time my brother was the closest to it after I shot and as he was approaching it it started to move. Later he said I saw it go down No Way your going anywhere. Well it did and the rest of the story is Monkeys and a Football!!
2nd time was Eastern Washington Mule Deer. 340 yards Bang legs come out and slams down. I stood up thinking what a shot and wow it went down hard. Well by the time I put my pack back on to head over to him. Up he comes. In disbelief he runs down the other ravine. Track him for 3 miles a little blood at first then less and less then as he crossed an open plateau nothing. The next year my friend got him he had a nice chunk of meat missing over the top of his spine.
Lesson Learned.

 

[WyoHunter1]

Now if the Deer was facing away from you and you had a shot at the spine or neck then that is an easy decision. Pull the trigger. Just don't aim for the little brown target below the tail. Trust me on this one.

 

[shaughn]

I have always used high shoulder or neck shots some years after I started hunting and there is a simple reason...anchoring the animal in place.

There has been a trend towards anchoring shots and it really doesn't matter what bullet is being used. A lot has to do with time available to hunt and the dwindling skills of a lot of hunters, when it comes to finding wounded game. Break both shoulders and/or disrupt the spine and there it stays, shoot it thru the lungs it may make it over the fence or into the open arms of another hunter and since a good size rack can get your name in the book or win you prizes in some competition...the other hunter may be a whole lot less likely to surrender "HIS" deer/elk, even though you shot it "FIRST".

I've used solids and hard cast lead and the first one won't expand and the second doesn't expand or deform all that much. So using a monolithic expanding bullet won't change my shot placement.

Ask a lot of hunters who traipse over to Africa, with the advent of the Monolithic bullets more guides are moving away from Solids for Cape Buffalo on follow ups, because the Monolithic type expander acts like a combo bullet, penetrates mushrooms,tendency to sheds petals at extreme close range and becomes a solid punching it's way thru... and Cape Buffalo...have a mantra..."Get Mad!...Get Even!... before you draw your last breath"....so reaching where they live and breaking stuff along the way is a good thing.

I am also a practitioner in picking my point of aim and that is where I want the bullet to strike, I am not looking at the game animal, but at the point on the game animal where I want the bullet to go. "Aim Small Miss Small"

It all comes down to comfort level and what works for you.

 

[AZShooter]

While I always try to shoot behind the shoulder, a few years back a cow elk presented a difficult shot in dead timber. She was following a spooked herd and I knew she wouldn't stay still long. She stopped between two dead trees and presented her shoulders only at 250 yds. I put the 230 gr Berger match target hybrid from the 300 RUM through both shoulders, 3" below the top edge of both scapulas, I know because I butchered her. She dropped to the ground and was dead. Meat damage was minimal, very impressed with the results. That shot worked out and I filled the freezer.

 

[memtb]

Now if the Deer was facing away from you and you had a shot at the spine or neck then that is an easy decision. Pull the trigger. Just don't aim for the little brown target below the tail. Trust me on this one.

Very effective on elk also......if you have the proper bullet. My only elk kill with a "Texas Heart Shot".... a few inches to the left of desired entrance point (elks exit spot), destroyed the pelvis, continued forward through the diaphragm, left lung, exited at left foreleg pocket (armpit), reentered upper leg, continued thru upper leg, and stopped beneath the hide. That's a lot of penetration.....major bone (pelvis), 3 hide penetrations (total), and a lot of soft tissue. 95% weight retention on the bullet....with a lot of frontal area. This is the performance I expect from my bullets! memtb