Single digit E.S. dont mean squat.

[BrentM]

Isn't this science experiment (reloading) great? One thing I've learned is there are always going to be scientists/reloaders that will come to a conclusion and profess with absolute authority they have the answer. Very few of these conclusions survive the rigorous and critical challenges from others. Some take great pleasure in discrediting other's thoughts and opinions. Some just seek to understand the context and basis of the opinion. I have yet to put anyone on the ignore list. I have reasonable confidence that I can discern what will be important to me in this great hobby. Plus, I just bought a new Labradar, and I'm going to use it.

Best thing eva.... I use mine quite a bit. Do yourself a favor and get a recoil trigger tho. I very rarely have a failure to read with the trigger. My reason for getting it was due to suppressors not triggering the lab on sound, but it works so well I use it all the time now.

 

[nksmfamjp]

Out of curiosity, at what point is a sample size adequate to the statistical minded?

20

 

[nksmfamjp]

Those days are long gone, it's sad

Try the ignore user function! It has brought peace back to my life!

 

[hemiford]

I spend a lot of time shooting longer ranges than most. I don't touch the chrono until load development is finished nowadays. I use to use it for every round fired and I've spent a good deal of money on them. I have a PVM-21, Magnetospeed V3, Labradar, and Andi-X. I've learned through experience that a good chrono number doesn't make a good load. I've found more times than not that accuracy trumps. I do my load development at 100 yards, then confirm at 600 yards and 1000 yards. I've tested good chrono numbers against bad, and the short range accuracy wins every single time. Trust the target. People give velocity more credence than it deserves. There's much that can be said about Optimal Barrel Timing, Optimal Charge Weight, and their effect on barrel whip and bullet exit, but I don't have time to type it all out here.

Mr kgunz11,
Hope I'm not getting off topic, which chrono do you prefer for being the most reliable / accurate ?

 

[Rick Richard]

Try the ignore user function! It has brought peace back to my life!

That is one way to do it, but the other is to respectfully call them out ( publicly) and refuse to get sucked into an argument that is not constructive. Sooner or later they will no longer be "entertained" and will move on. If these options don't work, I encourage you bring it to the attention of the ADMIN (Report Button) and let them deal with it. Good luck and let's all of us keep this forum the best out there.

 

[VarmintBob]

I have a load for my custom 25-06 that shoots 10 rounds all touching at 100 metres, but has an ES of over 100fps…the target tells the story!

Cheers.

That ES of 100 fps will turn into a big vertical dispersion at 600 yds. You can shoot it or just run it through a ballistic calculator to see how much. The result will be the same either way other than wind effect.

 

[JAYgs8163]

Or you can just sit back and …..

 

[Mikecr]

That ES of 100 fps will turn into a big vertical dispersion at 600 yds. You can shoot it or just run it through a ballistic calculator to see how much. The result will be the same either way other than wind effect.

Well, barrel compensation could put 600yd shots right on top of each other even with high ES.
But then you might consider 400yd, or 800yd results w/resp to your killzone.

A competitor who shoots only 1kyd, is better served to develop at that range, while ignoring all ranges before/after.
Hunting shooting is more difficult to work out.

 

[44-40]

But sometimes the target, "don't mean nothin'"...cause you can not repeat it...so it don't mean nothin". Been there.
But when it can be done "repeatedly", and get smaller groups, or bounce a pop can at 1000 yds, before the wind changes, with not much vertical at long range,... "repeatedly"...that target means something. A good, usable load, with single digit S/D.
I always try for low S/D...do not like double digit S/D, especially past 10...
Helped me get 2 bullets into the same enlarged hole at 1000yds, for a 3 shot group of 1.516 inches ... once...never put 2 into one hole again at 1000yds to 1400yds, in the 17,000 match 308 rds fired 25 yrs ago...low S/D mattered if ya to get half MOA out to 1400yds, especially with the lowly 308Win.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

When shooting under 400yds, I haven't noticed low SD to mean much as far as group size goes. Some small groups have high SDs and some groups with really low SDs produce larger groups.

Given two loads that shoot similarly small groups, I'll take the one with low SD every time. Low SD's are a sign of consistent combustion characteristics, IMO. My 6mmBR will produce SDs of 2-3-4 all the time. It shoots extremely small groups at 400yds but I haven't shot it any farther.

 

[DoneNOut]

Sometimes all this nerd talk can take the fun out of the daggum sport!

 

[VinceMule]

Sometimes all this nerd talk can take the fun out of the daggum sport!

Worse than going to work!

 

[ButterBean]

Try the ignore user function! It has brought peace back to my life!

I would but I live by my last signature quote

 

[ButterBean]

But sometimes the target, "don't mean nothin'"...cause you can not repeat it...so it don't mean nothin". Been there.
But when it can be done "repeatedly", and get smaller groups, or bounce a pop can at 1000 yds, before the wind changes, with not much vertical at long range,... "repeatedly"...that target means something. A good, usable load, with single digit S/D.
I always try for low S/D...do not like double digit S/D, especially past 10...
Helped me get 2 bullets into the same enlarged hole at 1000yds, for a 3 shot group of 1.516 inches ... once...never put 2 into one hole again at 1000yds to 1400yds, in the 17,000 match 308 rds fired 25 yrs ago...low S/D mattered if ya to get half MOA out to 1400yds, especially with the lowly 308Win.

Gibberish, do you think we just shoot one 3 shot group on a whim and caller good? the target means everything, and you do know this is Long Range Hunting not Bench Rest Central