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Side Arm for Grizzly Country

Just for giggles if anyone wants to see just how fast those buggers can move on you- watch this.


If you're packing a pistol- try rolling some bowling balls down hill at 20-30mph towards you and see if you can hit them :D
Just for giggles if anyone wants to see just how fast those buggers can move on you- watch this.


If you're packing a pistol- try rolling some bowling balls down hill at 20-30mph towards you and see if you can hit them :D
That bear charge appeared to be a bluff charge allowing the cub to catch up. Don't think the spray was the deterrent in this specific instance. She had already set the air and hit the rudder, as the cub caught up and passed her, before the spray was actually triggered.......in retrospective slow mo from my Lazy Boy. :) :) Guessing one can't make those decisions in repetitive slow mo in the field??? Might pay to burn a couple of those spray cans practicing before hand. Note to self: Ditch the trail mix for a gross of spare tidy whities and several cans of Wet Ones!!!
 
These kinds of questions always brings out plenty of healthy discussion. And being this is the internet there's not true way of knowing what kind of experience, and or experiences we all have.

That said, when I mentioned the U tube video showing the guy shooting a Glock 20 and a heavy handgun it wasn't to say that this or that gun was best. It was mainly to show in a very succinct manner the difference between the two in recoil. Watch the video and one will see immediately that the G20 is considerably more controllable. Being me user friendly is naturally going to lend it to being easier to work with and maybe just maybe people will be a bit more inclined to shoot it more as well better.

Is there those out there that can go double action with a short barreled heavy handgun , yes you bet there are. But, they're a beast and a handful in many ways, thus generally resulting in people not shooting them as well as they should.

Is practice practice practice importanat, zero doubt it is! Being a cool, calm head and knowing when it's time to go hot and when it's not is also important. Time around bruins will teach us a lot about that.

I don't hunt bears near as much as I used to but when I did a lot I'd look at 40-50 different bruins a spring and a fair amount of them were G bears. When I was guiding in Montana for black bears I had two get after me in a serious manner. I shot one at 9' just under the chin using my clients 25/06 and the other @ 15' with my 22/250. Both times the bruins had been hit already so were a bit ****ed. Both times I ended the affair with a shot under the chin.

After that I did a bunch of serious testing to see what guns I could put into action quickly and with accuracy. Long and the short, I tried most all guns and the 760 Rem in 06 was far and away quickest for me, followed by my bolt gun in 270 or 06. When I got to the heavy cal's like my M70 in 375 Wby, the darned recoil bumped me off so far that a second let alone 3rd was pretty tough to get done in time.

I found the 06 based cases to be for me the best tool for a combo of plenty of power and time back to target.
But that's just what works for me.

Point being find what you'll carry and keep on you at all times! Trust me on this I've seen it many times the heavier the gun sooner or later one won't have it handy.

IMO 90% of the outdoorsman would be better suited with bear spray as they're just not practiced enough. Not matter now good, tough, experienced people are with guns and the woods most are just not prepared to protect themselves with a handgun. The tough thing with this is that most have a real tough time being humble enough to say and know that.

Lastly, my IMO bear fights are one to 3 shots and done, rarely is one going to be effective with more than that and or have time for that. IMO with a G20 one has a much better chance of getting back on target in time to get one or maybe two more rounds off. That recovery time and time back on target is incredibly important. And for me, I'm all about CNS hits, I'd go body if I had zero other choice but for me I'll put my life in my hands looking for that one chance for a lights out CNS shot.

I used to have a 3" S&W .44, really liked the gun wished I wouldn't of had to move it down the road but that's life. It was ok to handle, but heavy and going double action it was a handful. But, I practiced enough to be fairly handy with it.

I have several friends with the S&W M329 light .44, most all of them have the grips from a 500 S&W on them and now they're sort of manageable.

This is always a fun discusssion, I say pick your poison do a lot of shooting with it yearly at close range. Find a holster you can draw from quickly and safely and carry it at all times. Firing 500 to 1K rounds a year thru it isn't a overly bad idea. And like I mentioned before do yourself a solid by looking at the "Gunfighter Kenai" chest rig. A system like this is to be worn on the outside of the clothes and that's where you're going to want it if you ever need it.

End of story, fire away ladies and gents:)
Good stuff.

My thoughts. Significantly less recoil is directly related to significantly less power/energy. Just like if you put a .22 LR in a video next to a 10mm. Training will overcome a lot of recoil management issues but it takes training. So train less and us an inferior caliber is what most people seem to favor. Ohh well.
Significantly less recoil is directly related to significantly less power/energy. Just like if you put a .22 LR in a video next to a 10mm. Training will overcome a lot of recoil management issues but it takes training. So train less and us an inferior caliber is what most people seem to favor. Ohh well.

10mm 220 grain, it actually gets to 1200 fps out of a G20 (it's not gonna get there out of a G29) is only 700 ft/lbs of energy. I think anyone here would say that's not enough for an ethical long range shot, but somehow the argument is that's plenty for defense of your life against some of the largest game in North America when it's hacked off? Does not compute.

Buffalo bore .44 340 grain is advertised at 1,425 fps but even at 1,300 you're at 1,300 ft lbs of energy. Basically two to one when compared to 10mm so even if you don't train a lot all you have to do is get one shot of .44 on target for every two on target the 10mm gets and you are gonna tie at worst. But really that first hit on an actual bear is going to mean way more than any follow up hits...if you get that chance.

I challenge any average Joe to a timed run with my .44 against their 10mm where they get two shots of to my one either straight run or from a holster. Just name the target size and distance.
 
357 will be fine. I do most of my hunting in Grizzly country. I carry a glock 29 10mm. Anything will be better than nothing - no handgun will make their legs come out from under them, unless it is a shot to the head that penetrates their thick skull. You just have to convince them you bite back and live to fight another day. I would choose the gun you shoot the most accurately and pick a good hardcast or solid bullet.

I have carried several .44 magnums over the last 30 years. On my first trip to Alaska I carried a old model Ruger Vaquero in .44 Mag. . I checked around and found that this was not a popular sidearm due to the slow reloading time and the added danger from that problem. So I traded it in on a S&W 629 Mountain gun. faster reloading but still a bit heavy, ie, still at 41 oz. Later I traded the Mountain Gun in on S&W Combat magnum. Lighter though I only carries five shots. I have plans to have it Magna Ported and the cylinder shaved to hold full moon clips to really enhance the reloading capability. With the Magna port to reduce the muzzle climb and the faster reloading I should be able to fire five shots and reload as fast as having a 15 shot clip. If you go to Alaska check the gun stores and pawn shops. You will find that they are over stocked with large caliber pistols that people have bought and found that they cannot control them. They tend to trade them in on .44 mag's and realize it is not the big bullets that will protect them from bears, it's shot placement and practice is the most important part of this !!!
 
First! The likelyhood of you getting off a calm accurate shot is unlikely so the more rounds the better. The sound will send them running 9 out of 10 times anyways.
Second! The kill area of a bear facing you is very small so make lots of holes. I carry a Springfield 10mm xdm.
Lastly! I live in and hunt in grizzly country every day I have ever hunted and have seen them hundreds of times. Unless your in alaska they aren't much larger than a large black bear. Most under 400lbs. There is no such thing as a pistol that knocks down a bear anyways. I double lunged a 100lb black bear last weekend with a 212gr eld x out of my 300 mag and he still ran 75 yards before tipping over.
So I vote auto for a defense side arm against bears.

The issue is time......it many case, no time for "a" shot, much less a magazine full. Therefore, if you have time for that one or two shots, large bore, heavy bullets will "trump" a magazine still "mostly" loaded....every time! memtb
 
Good stuff.

My thoughts. Significantly less recoil is directly related to significantly less power/energy. Just like if you put a .22 LR in a video next to a 10mm. Training will overcome a lot of recoil management issues but it takes training. So train less and us an inferior caliber is what most people seem to favor. Ohh well.
Significantly less recoil is directly related to significantly less power/energy. Just like if you put a .22 LR in a video next to a 10mm. Training will overcome a lot of recoil management issues but it takes training. So train less and us an inferior caliber is what most people seem to favor. Ohh well.

10mm 220 grain, it actually gets to 1200 fps out of a G20 (it's not gonna get there out of a G29) is only 700 ft/lbs of energy. I think anyone here would say that's not enough for an ethical long range shot, but somehow the argument is that's plenty for defense of your life against some of the largest game in North America when it's hacked off? Does not compute.

Buffalo bore .44 340 grain is advertised at 1,425 fps but even at 1,300 you're at 1,300 ft lbs of energy. Basically two to one when compared to 10mm so even if you don't train a lot all you have to do is get one shot of .44 on target for every two on target the 10mm gets and you are gonna tie at worst. But really that first hit on an actual bear is going to mean way more than any follow up hits...if you get that chance.

I challenge any average Joe to a timed run with my .44 against their 10mm where they get two shots of to my one either straight run or from a holster. Just name the target size and distance.
I think you are missing the point - your 44 isnt going to take the bears legs out from under it unless you hit it in the brain. A 10mm is just as capable penetrating the skull to the brain as a 44 is. Energy is irrelevant when we are talking about a head shot. So the question is can I hit a bowling ball rolling down the hill at me with a full mag in my 10mm before you can hit it with your .44. Its not a 2 for 1 deal - that is fake news. Its one good shot out of a 10mm or 44 that makes it to the brain. If you are thinking you are going to double lung a brown bear to prevent an attack you are kidding yourself...
 
I am going on a horseback Mule Deer hunt in Grizzly Country. I will be with a guide. I am told that it is advisable to have a side arm for protection from the grizzly bears. The simple choice looks to be a 44 mag, with hard cast bullets, but I'm interested in hearing what you guys are using, and what advantages and disadvantages you have seen. I am limited in the weight that I can carry, so that is a consideration. I have a 6" S&W 357 Wheel gun, and hoping it is reasonable to use that for protection.
I did a lot of reading on this subject last year, I read 20-30 articles all stating 10mm would do. I live in California so the biggest legal magazine is 10 rounds. The articles emphasized most attacks were by surprise from short distance, under these circumstances you would be lucky to 2 to 3 rounds off but to empty your gun.
 
I think you are missing the point - your 44 isnt going to take the bears legs out from under it unless you hit it in the brain. A 10mm is just as capable penetrating the skull to the brain as a 44 is. Energy is irrelevant when we are talking about a head shot. So the question is can I hit a bowling ball rolling down the hill at me with a full mag in my 10mm before you can hit it with your .44. Its not a 2 for 1 deal - that is fake news. Its one good shot out of a 10mm or 44 that makes it to the brain. If you are thinking you are going to double lung a brown bear to prevent an attack you are kidding yourself...
I've killed more than a handful of bears, pretty sure I understand their capabilities. I'm also sure my first shot on a bear has never been lungs.

If you miss a CNS shot but still hit it which would you rather have hit something non-CNS a 10 mm or a .44 or other?

ETA the SD on the .44 is also significantly higher so your chances of penetrating the skull instead of bouncing off when you don't hit it perpendicular are also better.
 
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I've killed more than a handful of bears, pretty sure I understand their capabilities. I'm also sure my first shot on a bear has never been lungs.

If you miss a CNS shot but still hit it which would you rather have hit something non-CNS a 10 mm or a .44 or other?
You've killed more than a handful of Grizzlies? Hunting them I am guessing, or in defense situations? I am saying it doesn't really matter - if it isn't a CNS shot, my 10mm and your 44 aren't going to matter much.
 
I've killed more than a handful of bears, pretty sure I understand their capabilities. I'm also sure my first shot on a bear has never been lungs.

If you miss a CNS shot but still hit it which would you rather have hit something non-CNS a 10 mm or a .44 or other?

There are some of us that have 10mms AND 44 Magnums. By any objective test, the 44 wins hands down. It's not a contest --- it's a blow out
 
Upland Freak --- I gotta ask. How many shootouts with Bears (or anything) have you been in ?

S2S has a track record with bears.

I'll always listen to the Old Sgt with a 2 star CIB before the 2nd Looie from West Point.
 
You've killed more than a handful of Grizzlies? Hunting them I am guessing, or in defense situations? I am saying it doesn't really matter - if it isn't a CNS shot, my 10mm and your 44 aren't going to matter much.
Grizzlies were all defense, one of life the rest property. Would have been two in defense of life but my clients were between me and my gun and froze and I got lucky with the bears decision to only make a mock charge. Could have fooled me. Was also the last time I ever left my gun on the boat.

I've hunted black bears once. They don't taste all that great to me and I enjoy watching them more than shooting them but I'd take anyone bear hunting that wants to go.

If your willing to bet your life on a non-CNS not mattering much between 10mm and .44 that's fine by me. Not my life and I'm not gonna tell you how to live yours.
 
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Caliber: 10mm Auto
Bullet Wt.: 165gr COR®BON Self-Defense JHP
Velocity: 1250fps
Energy: 573ftlbs
Test Barrel Length: 4.6 Inches
20 rounds per box.

Caliber: 44 Rem Mag
Bullet Wt.: 225gr DPX
Velocity: 1350fps
Energy: 911ftlbs
Test Barrel Length: 8.375 Inches
20 rounds per box.

Almost twice the energy for a bullet 50% heavier. Any questions ?
 
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