Shot placement to save meat

[atl5029]

Best meat saver for me is also the Barnes ( though I am looking forward to try the Hammer in my 358 Norma ) I'm not sure the SST is stout enough, even in a 338. The heavier, thick skinned more muscled up animals , like elk and plains game are tough on the lighter made bullets. At minimum, a 250 gr Partition would save more meat than an SST, IMO. I used the older 185 XLC in the 338 WM on cow elk and it was great, I used the 210XBT in a 340 Weatherby on plains game, same great results. We also used the 180XBT on lots of plains game, from Impala to big Gemsbuk...as said, eat right up to the bullet hole. On the other end of the spectrum, I used a 310gr Woodleigh in a 35 Whelen Improved on a 200# Eurasian hog at 30 yds!, No bloodshot meat at all, just a 40cal entrance with a 75 cal exit, jello in between. I highly recommend the monos, and the Hammers sound like a great design to me ( I'm not trying to get a discount on them by saying this, ha) Good luck to you Pard.

There is a .358 cal Hammer bullet? I went to the website after reading this and didn't see any. I shoot Barnes exclusively for hunting (and Cutting Edge MTH in my long range rig). I have a 358 Win and 35 Whelen that see a lot of use, and I shoot the 225 grain TSX in those, but I've always wanted to see a boat tail monolithic bullet in the 225-250 grain range with a decent BC. If Steve were to develop some 358 bullets with a nice BC for a 1:12 twist I'd definitely buy some (hint hint )

 

[RockyMtnMT]

There is a .358 cal Hammer bullet? I went to the website after reading this and didn't see any. I shoot Barnes exclusively for hunting (and Cutting Edge MTH in my long range rig). I have a 358 Win and 35 Whelen that see a lot of use, and I shoot the 225 grain TSX in those, but I've always wanted to see a boat tail monolithic bullet in the 225-250 grain range with a decent BC. If Steve were to develop some 358 bullets with a nice BC for a 1:12 twist I'd definitely buy some (hint hint )

We just finished designing one for the 14" twist that Jim inquired about. We have not yet had a chance to cut one and get a first hand look. We are guessing that it will come out about 200g. The twelve twist would get a bit heavier.

Steve

 

[atl5029]

We just finished designing one for the 14" twist that Jim inquired about. We have not yet had a chance to cut one and get a first hand look. We are guessing that it will come out about 200g. The twelve twist would get a bit heavier.

Steve

Nice!! Any idea what the BC on the 200 grainer will be? And do you plan on making one for a 12 twist? I'll need to check out those 200 grain ones

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Nice!! Any idea what the BC on the 200 grainer will be? And do you plan on making one for a 12 twist? I'll need to check out those 200 grain ones

I have a few more Hammer Bullets to finish this morning for customers, and then I've got to get back into a big pistol order. I'll try and get one of the 35's cut before I convert over the machine.

Steve

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Just cut the 358 for 14" twist. It came in at 220.5g. Thing looks awesome. May need a larger hollow pt to ensure low vel performance. Testing next week.

Based on this bullet I would say that the same basic thing for 12" twist would come in around 250g. These guys are not really designed for high bc values, nor are the rifles that typically shoot them. Estimate G7 BC at .19.

Sorry for the hijack.

Steve

 

[RevJim]

You're stirring me up Steve, ha! 220gr sounds like plenty! I used that old Barnes 250X on my first trip to SA, but later on I used the 200X, both in a Whelen AI, and the 200X did the same thing as the 250! Since I don't hunt big bears up close or far, I like the flatter shooting bullet, even under 300yds. I found that when I load about +1 high at 100 I can "thread it" though the pucker brush/dark timber (where "most of the elk live anyhow!) and I tend to "hold up a bit" at longer range. Thanks for getting right on the design, as I mentioned, I'm in no hurry, but will commit to two boxes (100) when you are done! Jim

 

[atl5029]

Just cut the 358 for 14" twist. It came in at 220.5g. Thing looks awesome. May need a larger hollow pt to ensure low vel performance. Testing next week.

Based on this bullet I would say that the same basic thing for 12" twist would come in around 250g. These guys are not really designed for high bc values, nor are the rifles that typically shoot them. Estimate G7 BC at .19.

Sorry for the hijack.

Steve

Is that .19 G7 BC for the 220 grain you just cut? If so that's still a little better than the 200 TTSX or 225 TSX (converted using the JBM calculator). I realize the standard 35 cal cartridges aren't really suited for long range. My 358 sports an 18" barrel that I use in thick cover for PA bear and deer, but my 35 Whelen I'd like to be able to stretch out to 500 yards with some velocity to spare to properly expand on elk, so any increase in BC from the Barnes offerings is welcomed. GS custom has a few 35 cal offerings with a G1 BC of .4 or better, but those are PRICEY!!!

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Is that .19 G7 BC for the 220 grain you just cut? If so that's still a little better than the 200 TTSX or 225 TSX (converted using the JBM calculator). I realize the standard 35 cal cartridges aren't really suited for long range. My 358 sports an 18" barrel that I use in thick cover for PA bear and deer, but my 35 Whelen I'd like to be able to stretch out to 500 yards with some velocity to spare to properly expand on elk, so any increase in BC from the Barnes offerings is welcomed. GS custom has a few 35 cal offerings with a G1 BC of .4 or better, but those are PRICEY!!!

Yes it is a G7. I think you said that you have a 12" twist? I am guessing that when we design one for the 12" twist it will come in near 250g. That would give an estimated G7 BC of .214. I ran some calculations at 2000' elev. and you would still have 1900fps at 500y with a starting vel of 2850fps. There is a lot of stabs in the dark here but looks like it could be done.

Steve

 

[atl5029]

Yes it is a G7. I think you said that you have a 12" twist? I am guessing that when we design one for the 12" twist it will come in near 250g. That would give an estimated G7 BC of .214. I ran some calculations at 2000' elev. and you would still have 1900fps at 500y with a starting vel of 2850fps. There is a lot of stabs in the dark here but looks like it could be done.

Steve

That's awesome! I'd love to see those become a reality. Yes, both by 358 cal rifles have 12 twists, so I'd definitely buy some of those. Do you really think a 250 grain hammer can be pushed to 2850 in a 24" 35 Whelen?

 

[RevJim]

While I am sure they will give you an answer, atl, I do not know anything about the Hammer bullet. According to advertising, you may very well get to 2700 in a standard Whelan, but its "doubtful" you will get to 2850. Now honestly, I can only base this on a 35 Whelan AI that got 2750 with a Nosler 250PT...but at 72K pressure! It will be interesting to see just how much "real world" gain you get in velocity from their 'special" bullet....I do believe it will be "faster", I'm just not sure you will get 2850. I had my 35 Whelan AI converted to the 358 Norma Mag just for those higher velocities! Have a good un chief! Rev Jim

 

[atl5029]

While I am sure they will give you an answer, atl, I do not know anything about the Hammer bullet. According to advertising, you may very well get to 2700 in a standard Whelan, but its "doubtful" you will get to 2850. Now honestly, I can only base this on a 35 Whelan AI that got 2750 with a Nosler 250PT...but at 72K pressure! It will be interesting to see just how much "real world" gain you get in velocity from their 'special" bullet....I do believe it will be "faster", I'm just not sure you will get 2850. I had my 35 Whelan AI converted to the 358 Norma Mag just for those higher velocities! Have a good un chief! Rev Jim

I'd be totally happy with 2700 fps, even 2600-2650. I'm not trying for superior long range performance with this rig, just trying to throw a 225-250 grain bullet out to at least 500 yards or better with enough velocity to not have to worry about expansion when it gets there. I'm not sure if the Barnes would do that, but it seems these Hammers will, and as the thread is about, they won't destroy a ton of meat on a close up shot. I would hope that the drive band design of the Hammer would help get a little bit of velocity over other 250 grain bullets. Might end up going your way and rechambering to 358 Norma or 350 Rem Mag and load em long. But until then I'll give it a try with the Whelen.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Generally speaking our bullet design runs pretty close to conventional bullets for pressure. Our drive band design is not exactly a drive band but kind of a high bred between grooved and banded. They will have less pressure than traditional mono bullets and they lack the flyers typically associated with mono bullets. Some of our bullets will have a bit less pressure than conventional bullets and will get you a bit more vel than usual for the weight, but I am generally happy with normal vel for weight.

Steve

 

[RevJim]

hey ATL- I'd almost bet you a Red soda Pop you can get to 2600 with a 250 Hammer ( maybe anything really, with R15 or one of the new super powders!) out of your 24" barrel. A Whelen, standard or Improced, is almost a cylinder, so stick with the faster powders, i.e R15,etc. have a ball dude.

 

[atl5029]

Just cut the 358 for 14" twist. It came in at 220.5g. Thing looks awesome. May need a larger hollow pt to ensure low vel performance. Testing next week.

Based on this bullet I would say that the same basic thing for 12" twist would come in around 250g. These guys are not really designed for high bc values, nor are the rifles that typically shoot them. Estimate G7 BC at .19.

Sorry for the hijack.

Steve

Any results from the 358 cal 220 grain Hammer testing?