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I love NF Mill XT and Mill C. I have both ATACR's. They are Fantastic love those reticles. What don't you not like the reticles?
The Nightforce Mil XT/C feel very busy/cluttered to me for quick hold overs and the main stadia are not bold enough at low power for the feel of a good duplex. I much prefer some like the MR4 in the Minox or Vortex EBR7. My Arken EP5 has a very good reticle, feels uncluttered, illumination is only the center crosshair and main stadia are bolder. Not a perfect reticle but much more user friendly than the current offerings from Nightforce.
Would love to hear your explanation of Leupold's reticle designs.
They have mastered the art of offering a lot of "stuff" and a duplex reticle. I really don't see anything they offer that is current or leading edge.
Sadly the custom shop has been closed for a while now: https://www.leupold.com/custom-shop
Thats too bad!
The athlon, like most scopes is built around a marketable feature set and price point, not around durability. Features are what most people demand when they buy a scope. 6x, FFP, illumination, locking turrets, etc.
Again I would argue you get what you pay for! At the $600 and below price point you can either have tough reliability or you can have features but probably not both. The Athlon Cronus BTR Gen 2 is absolutely reliable and tough as nails with exceptional glass. In my opinion it may be the best value out there but its price point is $1700-2000. That price point buys you a lot of scope. Surely people are not expecting to get the same quality in a $500 scope?
The Ares ETR is a nice option as well but it is a $1100-1500 scope. Again when talking tier one scopes there are few options that will not do what you ask of them. The Helos is a $499 scope. It belongs in the same category as every other scope in that price point. The SWFA gives you rugged reliability but poor glass quality, not suitable for shooting in extreme conditions more than 600 yards realistically. The Helos offers better glass but lacks the ruggedness. You can have one but not both in most cases. This complaint and comparison is unrealistic. It is like comparing a Razor Gen 3 to a Diamondback and griping because your DB scope broke. They are not the same animal and never will be even though they have similar features. Its like buying a 2-wheel drive Silverado W/T and then complaining that it will not go or do what you buddies Z-71Trail Boss will. At the same time you may not need all the Z-71 has to offer. Again, need should drive your purchase. Don't buy more scope than you need or know how to use. Start small and work your way up as you out grow your present set up.
Thanks for explaining this, I think….So, let me summarize….the greatest US made optics maker cannot define an exact purpose for each and every optic the build and then produce a "best in class" optic for that purpose?
Back then 400 yards was a long shot. Most of us knew enough to zero our rifles at 200-250 and then hold across his back. If the wind was blowing we would throw in a little Kentucky windage and hope for the best!
Nobody dialed their scopes. If you were lucky you had mil-dots. We zeroed and left it and held holdovers. The first time I shot a 1000 yards I shot it with a Millet 6-24 with a mil-dot on top of a 308. It was a Kimber LPT. It was in the late 90s. What amazes me is all this debate over scopes and then some guys takes an 06 with adjustable sights and tattoos a 24" circle at a 1000 yards. All the fancy stuff we have now we could only dream of prior to 92. The Mark 4 changed everything. Those original scopes were 2nd FP with MOA turrets and mil reticles. How did we ever do it without a NF???
What the new tier one scopes allow us to do is really push the envelope on accuracy and distance. Nobody would have dreamed that a 2 mile shot (3520 yards) was even possible back in the 90s. If someone did make one it was chalked up to dumb luck. Now it is not only possible it can be done with some measure of precision. So again what do you want to do with your scope. A scope made for rugged reliability in the mountains under $1000 is probably not going to let you shoot beyond 600 in adverse conditions. The scope that will allow for that at the same price point is probably not going to be that rugged. One of the days we hunted in Norway was cold with a fog layer covering the mountain and a slight rain. We are talking about reliability to hold zero. In those conditions you need to know your scope won't fog up as well. While holding zero is agreed the most important function of a scope there is so much more at play when hunting in extreme terrain and unfortunately you can't really get everything you need for that in a modern sub $500 scope. At least not one I have seen. If I were in that price range for a hunting scope I would look for and Older VXIII gold ring. I am just thinking out loud here!
