S&W 460V trail gun

[Old Rooster]

The reason I suggested testing your bear spray!!! Very few of us go into the field…..never having fired our firearm! memtb

Great point!My brother in law got in a bad spot when a big black bear chased him,he stopped and pulled his brand new bear spray out and sprayed and it went puff and stopped.No more stuff to make it come out of the can.To make matters worse the wind blew it back into my brother in laws face!He fell on the ground yelling and screaming, folks close by watched as the bear stopped and sat down and watched the whole thing and looked around like saying,Hey I didn't do that!Then ran off.
Firearms seldom fail to fire.

 

[Rick79]

If you reload pistol ammo, look at the Lehigh Defense extreme penetrator. We loaded some of the 140's for our 10mm's that are pushing 1350 and they keep recoil very manageable as well.

I carry a .40 or 10mm depending on where we are going. It's not because I think they are the best, but because semi's are what I have the muscle memory for.

 

[Old Rooster]

Rick79 I did not expect much from the 140 gr Lehigh bullets I got but a fellow shooter at our range unloaded 5 cinder blocks and shot through all 5 and no one found the bullet!Kept going!I was impressed.

 

[Teri Anne]

We will have bear spray. We will also have other pistols.

I shoot a lot so end up hanging around with a lot of police officers. After the bullets have impaled the targets and driven themselves into the backstop there are usually war stories over a few beers at the local saloon. In my case, not being a police officer my stories are from a real shooting war, theirs from actual experience in local urban wars. There has been much discussion about the use of pepper spray as a deterrent or means of controlling a person who is belligerent and threatening and generally causing havoc. For the most part the pepper spray does what it was designed to do. However there are times when pepper spray has failed for various reasons. In a few cases the canister failed to work. There the officer stood, pepper spray in hand, aiming as directed pressing the release...and nothing happens. Another incident when the release was pressed the spray shot off at a 45 degree angle from where it was aimed. In yet another situation when the release was pressed the spray dribbled out and over the officers hand instead of spraying out at the victim. Lastly but not the least the pepper spray did not seem to have any affect on the individual being sprayed. This was usually the case when the person causing the incident is hyped up on drugs, more often than not, lets just say a large person, weight well in excess of that of a normal large boned person who is on the heavy side. OK let's simply say a person the size of a medium sized Black Bear.

I often go up to a friends cabin up north where there are both bears and wolves to deal with. Wolves will avoid people, but they like the idea of killing the dog or dogs we are walking. We have seen bears but they mostly tend to scurry away. So far we have not surprised a Sow with cubs or things would probably be different. Two women walking through the woods with their dogs are hardly sneaking through the underbrush. Talking and laughing carries for quite a distance not to mention calling to the dog(s) to behave themselves (keep in mind these are domestic, not disciplined hunting dogs) After hearing the horror stories about pepper spray we quit carrying it on out almost daily journeys through the woods. These days I carry a S&W Model 19, she carries a S&W Model 60. Both are loaded with Buffalo Bore Heavy 357 Mag outdoorsman 180 gr hard cast bullets that are said to leave the barrel at 1400 fps. I am sure that coming out of my 4 inch barrel and her 3 inch barrel the velocity is somewhat less, but should be more than adequate to do the intended job. Another consideration is the fact that bears are incredibly fast. I don't want to be dealing with trying to get to the bear spray only to find that it is not doing its thing and then have to resort to the revolver...maybe in time???

As far as pepper spray goes for personal protection, I don't use it anymore. There are two methods I use to take care of personal protection. 1 - Avoid areas where there is a chance of confrontation. 2 - If there is a desperate need to go somewhere where there could be a confrontation there is a Kimber Micro 9 equipped with a laser sight. Where the laser is, is where the bullet goes.

So there are my thoughts on pepper/bear spray. In conclusion I am not going to take the time to try something that may work, rather than something that definitely will work. Yes I have a concealed carry and I am also a member of USCCA, which if you are not a member you should be if for no other reason for their excellent training.

 

[Rick79]

Rick79 I did not expect much from the 140 gr Lehigh bullets I got but a fellow shooter at our range unloaded 5 cinder blocks and shot through all 5 and no one found the bullet!Kept going!I was impressed.

I was fairly impressed with some of the videos and my hunting partner ordered some for us to try. I was even more impressed after we loaded some!

I don't know if I would use them for self defense against a human due to over penetration, but I have very little doubts about their ability to penetrate through thick skin and fur. I don't run solid coppers in my rifles, but I think the "speed kills" saying fits for these too.

 

[WYO300RUM]

I was fairly impressed with some of the videos and my hunting partner ordered some for us to try. I was even more impressed after we loaded some!

I don't know if I would use them for self defense against a human due to over penetration, but I have very little doubts about their ability to penetrate through thick skin and fur. I don't run solid coppers in my rifles, but I think the "speed kills" saying fits for these too.

And Skull and bone penitration

 

[memtb]

Rick79 I did not expect much from the 140 gr Lehigh bullets I got but a fellow shooter at our range unloaded 5 cinder blocks and shot through all 5 and no one found the bullet!Kept going!I was impressed.

The one thing that I have against the LeHigh Penetrators is the shape!

Yee, they penetrate like "no tomorrow"…..but do minimal damage, other than a long wound channel! There is a very small permanent wound channel, and minimal shock transference (hydraulic, ect.)

A wide, flat nose (wide metplat) transfers more energy to the animal, has greater permanent tissue disruption, and will also penetrate deeply into large animals!

Think about what you learned in Basic First Aid…..a puncture wound will bleed very little, as there is generally minimal tissue damage…..just large enough for the sharp (pointed) object to pass through the tissue, with the tissue quickly returning nearly back to pre penetration state! JMO memtb

 

[3chester]

The one thing that I have against the LeHigh Penetrators is the shape!

Yee, they penetrate like "no tomorrow"…..but do minimal damage, other than a long wound channel! There is a very small permanent wound channel, and minimal shock transference (hydraulic, ect.)

A wide, flat nose (wide metplat) transfers more energy to the animal, has greater permanent tissue disruption, and will also penetrate deeply into large animals!

Think about what you learned in Basic First Aid…..a puncture wound will bleed very little, as there is generally tissue damage…..just large enough for the sharp (pointed) object to pass through the tissue, with the tissue quickly returning nearly back to pre penetration state! JMO memtb

Lehigh's run thru like a ship auger bit thru an oak timber, clean hole all the way thru with less energy expended. Makes em leak out on both sides

 

[akmtnhnt]

The one thing that I have against the LeHigh Penetrators is the shape!

Yee, they penetrate like "no tomorrow"…..but do minimal damage, other than a long wound channel! There is a very small permanent wound channel, and minimal shock transference (hydraulic, ect.)

A wide, flat nose (wide metplat) transfers more energy to the animal, has greater permanent tissue disruption, and will also penetrate deeply into large animals!

Think about what you learned in Basic First Aid…..a puncture wound will bleed very little, as there is generally tissue damage…..just large enough for the sharp (pointed) object to pass through the tissue, with the tissue quickly returning nearly back to pre penetration state! JMO memtb

A CNS hit is the only thing you're concerned with in a bear defense situation. Permanent wound cavity, energy into target(which doesn't even matter in a hunting scenario) are irrelevant as the bear will keep coming.

 

[3chester]

Lehigh's also have quite a few other bullets designed to stop whatever they hit. 375 diameter 270gr Controlled Fracturing bullets, are pre-stressed at specific points so that after a predetermined penetration depth, the razor-edge petals deploy, releasing the energy spike. Optimal for big bore rifle calibers such as 375 H&H Magnum.They're nearly a buck80 each so, serious use like Elk or big game, mostly. Lehigh's got the wide flat points, basically any of the good stuff. They got the 460 S&W bullet choices covered Seven ways to Sunday, everybody loads em.

 

[Rick79]

The one thing that I have against the LeHigh Penetrators is the shape!

Yee, they penetrate like "no tomorrow"…..but do minimal damage, other than a long wound channel! There is a very small permanent wound channel, and minimal shock transference (hydraulic, ect.)

A wide, flat nose (wide metplat) transfers more energy to the animal, has greater permanent tissue disruption, and will also penetrate deeply into large animals!

Think about what you learned in Basic First Aid…..a puncture wound will bleed very little, as there is generally tissue damage…..just large enough for the sharp (pointed) object to pass through the tissue, with the tissue quickly returning nearly back to pre penetration state! JMO memtb

If they were a solid copper shaped like a FMJ, I would agree with you on the wound channel. The same could be said about the solid coppers used for rifles that have small hollow points for other big game. I have zero experience with the rifle solids, so I can't say how well they work.

I think it would also have a higher chance of penciling on smaller game too, but this was more focused on bears and dangerous game that are much denser and have more bone mass. That is also one of the reasons I don't know how well they would work in a normal self defense situation along with the over penetration.

With all of that, I do plan on seeing how a few pigs at the deer lease fare against them this fall.

 

[memtb]

A CNS hit is the only thing you're concerned with in a bear defense situation. Permanent wound cavity, energy into target(which doesn't even matter in a hunting scenario) are irrelevant as the bear will keep coming.

Absolutely! memtb

 

[Moss]

The Sig is a nice rig

I carried a S&W 460V all over the mountains in WY. I used the kenai chest rig and handloads. 325 grain hard cast lead flat nose bullets. I also own a Springfield 10mm and might switch to carrying it for less bulk. I do like the 460 and the added weight does make it easier to get on target accurately.

If I got my hands on the P320 Xten, I'm sure that would be my go to every time.

I'm a little shy of the Sig X10. They seem to have some 1st year kinks to work out. Otherwise, I'd like to test drive one.

 

[Rick79]

The Sig is a nice rig

I'm a little shy of the Sig X10. They seem to have some 1st year kinks to work out. Otherwise, I'd like to test drive one.

I'd like to try one of the 220 Legions in 10mm. I have the XDM 10mm because I just could not justify the extra $900 at that time for a pistol that was only for hunting up north every few years. If they still made the regular 220 in 10mm I would have easily talked myself into that one!