Rifles in the rain *important*

[cowboy]

In addition to Phorwath's variables - don't forget about the different reactions of different powders, primers, and bullets, not to mention the different bore diameters on how tight they are.

I think I'll just do everything humanly possible to keep the moisture, condensate and everything else out of my barrels and ammo.

I would like to thank the original poster though - it really reinforces what I have always suspected.

 

[elkaholic]

In addition to Phorwath's variables - don't forget about the different reactions of different powders, primers, and bullets, not to mention the different bore diameters on how tight they are.

I think I'll just do everything humanly possible to keep the moisture, condensate and everything else out of my barrels and ammo.

I would like to thank the original poster though - it really reinforces what I have always suspected.

Thank you for your valuable experience. I can't tell you how frustrated I was when I missed that bull at 513 yards! I have killed 30+ bulls over the years, but the thrill of hunting them never subsides. There has been a lot of good discussion, and we may never know ALL of the reasons why, but we know more than we did and I for one will be more cautious.

 

[Pdvdh]

Testing can burn up a lot of time, but I cast my vote for Rich attempting to recreate and test the same wet bore conditions, and then testing the effect on POI with his rifle/ammo at least one more time.

I find it difficult to think that a carbon ring in the throat of the bore wouldn't be completely roasted and toasted with the first cartridge fired in the wet bore. Or at least completely cleared of any excess moisture. That's the area of the bore exposed to the equivalent of a cutting torch. The area that develops cracks and fissures on the surface of the bore.

Cast your votes in this Thread...

 

[Pdvdh]

I think I'll just do everything humanly possible to keep the moisture, condensate and everything else out of my barrels and ammo.

Agreed. That's the path of least frustration, and my plan going forward also.

 

[WildRose]

I'm a skeptic that running a cleaning patch down a bore removes moisture better than firing a bullet down the bore. Meaning that firing a single bullet down the bore would be as effective as running an alcohol swab down the bore.

So I have no idea why it takes 3 shots fired and a thorough bore cleaning to return a rifle to it's former accuracy and zero.

I do believe prevention is the simpler path forward. Seal off the muzzle, for many reasons. And chamber dry cartridges from outside a wet magazine, rather than feeding wet ones from the wet magazine into a dry chamber.

That's how I go about it, in order to reduce the concern of wetness skewing my POIs.

I don't think it's about removing the moisture I think it's much more about leaving a heavy, slimy, gummy mess behind when we fire that first shot.

Think of glycerin, it is a pretty good natural lubricant for tissues but put it on a couple of pieces of hot metal and rub them together and you'll find it turns to glue. Add to that unburnt and burnt powder residues and you've got quite a gooey mess.

 

[WildRose]

Thats why the cleaning patch thing may or may not work? The deposits are still there, but I least I can start out with a drier bore. I agree that prevention is the best approach, but I am still concerned about simple condensation causing problems......Rich

I wouldn't think condensation would be much of a problem. To get condensation you'd need a bore colder than the outside air and a lot of humidity.

If you do run into it, a dry patch will help but a patch with a little 90% Isopropyl would be better and dry heat (mild) will take care of that as well.

 

[WildRose]

The cause for my errant shots are generally easier to identify, after the fact. Their origin typically is embedded in my brain. Which requires more than a simple cleaning patch to resolve...

I think that all of us with much experience shooting know at least 99% of the time when we've made an errant shot and usually will know where to look for it as well.

It's those times when you flat know you did everything right and can't explain the miss when something like this may be the answer.

 

[WildRose]

That does not explain my experience though. My second and third shots were farther away from zero than the first! It also sounds like cowboy had a similar situation. I suppose at some point it would straighten up, but I don't know how many shots it would have taken? It could be that it depends on how much fouling was in the bore to begin with? It would be a nice test for someone to run; or maybe several someones!.......Rich

My guess would be that your bore was dirty or dirtier than his when the first shot was fired.

 

[LoneTraveler]

I learned over 50 years ago it took a full condom to protect the barrel of an M 14 with the flash hider-brake to protect the barrel from rain and snow. Thanks to Uncle Sam.
I still carry Latex gloves and rubber bands or tape to protect my rifles barrels from rain, snow and those little unknowns that find their way into a barrel.

Seen a 22-250 Rem. 700 at Mr. Shockey's Shop that had been over pressured bad. The hunter had leaned the muzzle against a tree. A little black cloud and rain ran the hunter to his vehicle. It quit raining and the sun came out. A groundhog came out in view, He shot at it and it went down hill from there. Shockey had to padded hammer the bolt open, And drill a hole and use a punch to get the case out of the bolt face-extractor. The primer pocket was just a black hole, The shell base was so deformed you could not read maker or caliber.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I am going to look at this from the prevention side. Don't think I am smart enough to figure out why the wet rifle did what it did.

For years I have made sure that I hunt with a dirty rifle. For fear of cleaning the rifle that was shooting perfectly and causing it to shoot differently. As a kid I remember Dad having trouble with 1st shot accuracy due to oily barrel. He kept his rifles clean and oiled to prevent rust in the field. So now I am wondering if I need to spend more time knowing how my rifle will hit when perfectly clean. With this there is no carbon to swell. I think maybe some experimentation with lubricants that can be left in the bore very thin? Saw a product called Frog Lube? That was making claims like this. Or the Machinegunners lube that Rose talked about. I think that Dad was more right than I. I think shooting perfectly clean lightly oiled to see how it hits is in order.

Probably another thread but this carbon fouling swelling theory brings to mind....What happens with a carbon wrapped barrel under the same continuously wet situation?

Steve

 

[WildRose]

I am going to look at this from the prevention side. Don't think I am smart enough to figure out why the wet rifle did what it did.

For years I have made sure that I hunt with a dirty rifle. For fear of cleaning the rifle that was shooting perfectly and causing it to shoot differently. As a kid I remember Dad having trouble with 1st shot accuracy due to oily barrel. He kept his rifles clean and oiled to prevent rust in the field. So now I am wondering if I need to spend more time knowing how my rifle will hit when perfectly clean. With this there is no carbon to swell. I think maybe some experimentation with lubricants that can be left in the bore very thin? Saw a product called Frog Lube? That was making claims like this. Or the Machinegunners lube that Rose talked about. I think that Dad was more right than I. I think shooting perfectly clean lightly oiled to see how it hits is in order.

Probably another thread but this carbon fouling swelling theory brings to mind....What happens with a carbon wrapped barrel under the same continuously wet situation?

Steve

Personally unless I'm shooting one a lot I clean it twice a year. Once before hunting season and once after.

I'll lightly dampen a patch with the ML run it back and forth a time or two, let it set a while and run a dry patch through it once. If the patch shows more oil than I'd like I'll run one more dry patch through it so that I'm leaving the bore lightly protected but not wet.

I can't tell you really if that's the right or wrong way to do it, it's just what I do and have for years and it works well enough for me.

I don't even keep my AR's and M1 A's clean but I do keep them lightly lubed. If they get too dusty I'll blow them out with gun scrubber or Berryman's and lube them up again.

Trucks get pretty dusty in West Texas.

 

[Pdvdh]

Re: Clean bore or Fouled bore

I head out to hunt with a fouled bore. Every rifle I've spent time testing sends the first round out of a cleaned bore to a different POI than the following rounds.
If I was to prioritize corrosion protection over 1st shot accuracy, I'd head out with a completely cleaned and lightly oiled bore. But what good is a barrel with no corrosion if I miss my first LR shot and come away miserable.

So I leave them fouled. If the bore gets wet, I'll clean to remove moisture and then fire another fouling shot prior to hunting.

Most of my rifles are settled in after a single fouling shot.

If an animal is far enough away, I might consider getting set up and the firing a water removing cleaning shot into the ground away from the game. Then re-engage on the 2nd shot. That's possible with caribou, sheep, and moose, without much risk of them jumping on the first report from the rifle - when they're a long ways off. Don't believe it would work for whitetail, coyote, & other high strung animals I've hunted.

 

[oldfortyfiveauto]

My Savage 270 win takes 3 shots to settle down from a clean barrel. First three shots at 200yds will be about 6", next three under 1.5"........

 

[lamiglas]

OP- If I missed this I apologize. you mentioned your MO is to clean then sight in before season. Does this mean your rfile didn't have a lot of round's down the tube (after cleaning) when this happened? I don't know what this would reveal one way or the other, just curious. There is definitely something to all of this, and I wish I had it figured out. I believe it must happen only when a bunch of things come together at one time. We have shot a lot in when it's wet, and sometimes the point of impact has been spot on and does not seem to be affected. Other times it cause's us to hit high and gives heavy ejector marks.. We have noticed this more when there is extreme moisture in the air versus heavy rain? At least the times I can recall it happening. When this has happened, it has lasted for shot 1 only and then back to normal. The crazy thing is, the exact same rife and load etc, will shoot great when wet sometimes,and not other times. I need to look back at my notes to see how many rounds down bore after cleaning when this has happened to see if there is a pattern? Not saying there would be, but I would love to figure it out! Since we know the rifles can be affected by rain or moisture, we have been using balloons overy the brake/muzzle while hunting and have not had an issue , even in extreme rain. Also, we have shot with the balloon on, and it has not affected point of impact. My notes indicate wet/ rain but I wish I had documented if it was heavy moisture/ condensation or flat out rain. Very interested to follow this thread. Thanks for posting! Also, whatever it is, it must be a combination of the right kind of wet, the right amount of fouling etc, because it does not do it all the time!